TT v RS
04-20-2003, 11:00 AM
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Track Day
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TT v RS
Hi all, I'm new to this board. I'm looking at buying either a 993RS or a 993TT, and wondered what you would go for. It will be used as my only car for a while, although it won't rack up that many miles. I wonder what will give me the most pleasure over the years?
As far as I can tell the RS has the best 'driver appeal', with sharp handling and a great induction noise. The trouble is, would I miss the sheer thrust of a TT?
On the other hand, if I go for a TT, will it be a one trick pony? Once the novelty of straight line power has worn off, will it be a bit too dull in the corners? (Those curved things we have in the UK).
I intend to by one and keep it. What would you do?
As far as I can tell the RS has the best 'driver appeal', with sharp handling and a great induction noise. The trouble is, would I miss the sheer thrust of a TT?
On the other hand, if I go for a TT, will it be a one trick pony? Once the novelty of straight line power has worn off, will it be a bit too dull in the corners? (Those curved things we have in the UK).
I intend to by one and keep it. What would you do?
04-20-2003, 02:13 PM
#3
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mike Markota:
<strong>TT is AWD...wouldnt it be good handling?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">4 WD understeers quite a bit out of the box. Better on the street, but less sharp on the track. Also, 4WD add a bit of weight.
But back to Paul Dixon, you need to tell us what you are going to use the car for... That will determine what car to get.
Not knowing anything about your driving history and future driving events, it's impossible to say which car is better or worse. It's like asking whether to buy or rent a house. The answer is: IT DEPENDS.
<strong>TT is AWD...wouldnt it be good handling?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">4 WD understeers quite a bit out of the box. Better on the street, but less sharp on the track. Also, 4WD add a bit of weight.
But back to Paul Dixon, you need to tell us what you are going to use the car for... That will determine what car to get.
Not knowing anything about your driving history and future driving events, it's impossible to say which car is better or worse. It's like asking whether to buy or rent a house. The answer is: IT DEPENDS.
04-20-2003, 03:49 PM
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I'll be driving around twisty little country lanes in the uk daily. It will also see a few motorways for some euro trips. The odd trackday would be on the cards too. A general all round car really. I won't mind a lack of limo like comfort or toys though.
04-20-2003, 04:54 PM
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I guess if I lived in the UK I'll really be tempted to get an RS. While the TT is a great car, the RS has an almost cult status in the UK meaning that it will hold it's value much better in the long run as well. I don't think they made too many RHD RS's though, so if this is going to be a problem for you then by all means go for the TT, you won't regret any of these fine cars <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
04-20-2003, 06:47 PM
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I differ a bit, although I have never driven an RS, I might be baised a bit. Considering the weather in the UK, the kind of roads you have (not the optimum) and thats its going to be your daily driver.... I would suggest a TT, it is more confortable, you can always upgrade it to your liking, without being affraid of removing the originality of the car; plus its 4WD, better in lousy, rainy weather. And it has emergency back seats, you didn't mention if you had kids.
I've always considered that the RS, GT3's and really limited edition cars would retain their value only if: 1 they are kept factory stock; 2 you don't use them a lot (garage queens); 3 in about 25-30 years. If you are going to drive it as it was meant to be, dont look at it as if its going to "hold" its value, or appreciate.
At the end its your choice, your going to live with it as a daily driver for a while.
just my 2 pesos (cents)
I've always considered that the RS, GT3's and really limited edition cars would retain their value only if: 1 they are kept factory stock; 2 you don't use them a lot (garage queens); 3 in about 25-30 years. If you are going to drive it as it was meant to be, dont look at it as if its going to "hold" its value, or appreciate.
At the end its your choice, your going to live with it as a daily driver for a while.
just my 2 pesos (cents)
04-21-2003, 12:52 AM
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Hi Paul
Sounds like you have a tough decision to make. I will offer my perspective being an RS owner. I have ridden in a couple of Turbos that have been heavily modified, so i have a small amount of turbo experience. My RS is not a daily driver, but in the past it was.
The RS is a fantastic driving machine. It is very light and nimble, nearly 300Kg lighter than the turbo. It is also pretty quick. However, not quite as quick as the turbo in a straight line. It demands hard driving all the time, which means every trip is highly enjoyable. Sure its a bit fidgety on bumby corners, so you have to commit yourself, which gives huge grin factor. The ride is hard too, but seems to smooth out over 90mph.
If you look at the 993 board it is full of posts from C2/4 guys doing RS based mods. All these of course come as standard, and some. Nil RHD examples are available, only 47 were bought into the UK and command a price. LHD does suffice
Although the RS does not have 4WD, it does have a race derived LSD. This coupled with the ABD system in the gearbox give pretty good traction in bad conditions, unless you want to hang the tail out of course, then the engine torque will be happy to assist. The RS was never undersealed, to keep the weight down, so dont drive it on salted roads during winter. The RS also has its own gear ratios, brakes and to many others differnces to the standard carrera to list here. The turbo does have its benefits, as does the M5 too.
I have made many long trips into Europe and around the UK. 3 to Le Mans. Its comfortable enough. One trip was Zurich to Calais, 1100km, stopped once to p, no gas, under 8 hours. Forget hearing the stereo over 90mph, the engine noise is entertaining enough. Can be driven flat out all day long too. In Europe of course!! Mind you i have been tapped on the M1. Pretty sure it was a closed road though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
RS's are getting harder to come by, Porsche built less RS's than Ferarri did F40's. They seem to hold their value well. Contrary to what has been mentioned before modifications can incrase value too, if a creditable tuners program has been followed. Something along the lines of Cargraphic or Techart. I went with Cargraphic.
I went for a ride once in a 500+BHP turbo in the rain, driven by Phil from Tech9 in liverpool. Whilst i was impressed, with the the grunt, it did understeer and felt pretty sanitised. Phil did say to me "its not an RS though, is it!"
There was an article floating around from Autocar mag. On a survey of the top 100 performance cars of all time, the RS scored second behind the McLaren F1. They reckoned, the RS is the best sportscar other than what a whole heap of many can buy.
Its your choice?
Regards
Phil Evans
Sounds like you have a tough decision to make. I will offer my perspective being an RS owner. I have ridden in a couple of Turbos that have been heavily modified, so i have a small amount of turbo experience. My RS is not a daily driver, but in the past it was.
The RS is a fantastic driving machine. It is very light and nimble, nearly 300Kg lighter than the turbo. It is also pretty quick. However, not quite as quick as the turbo in a straight line. It demands hard driving all the time, which means every trip is highly enjoyable. Sure its a bit fidgety on bumby corners, so you have to commit yourself, which gives huge grin factor. The ride is hard too, but seems to smooth out over 90mph.
If you look at the 993 board it is full of posts from C2/4 guys doing RS based mods. All these of course come as standard, and some. Nil RHD examples are available, only 47 were bought into the UK and command a price. LHD does suffice
Although the RS does not have 4WD, it does have a race derived LSD. This coupled with the ABD system in the gearbox give pretty good traction in bad conditions, unless you want to hang the tail out of course, then the engine torque will be happy to assist. The RS was never undersealed, to keep the weight down, so dont drive it on salted roads during winter. The RS also has its own gear ratios, brakes and to many others differnces to the standard carrera to list here. The turbo does have its benefits, as does the M5 too.
I have made many long trips into Europe and around the UK. 3 to Le Mans. Its comfortable enough. One trip was Zurich to Calais, 1100km, stopped once to p, no gas, under 8 hours. Forget hearing the stereo over 90mph, the engine noise is entertaining enough. Can be driven flat out all day long too. In Europe of course!! Mind you i have been tapped on the M1. Pretty sure it was a closed road though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
RS's are getting harder to come by, Porsche built less RS's than Ferarri did F40's. They seem to hold their value well. Contrary to what has been mentioned before modifications can incrase value too, if a creditable tuners program has been followed. Something along the lines of Cargraphic or Techart. I went with Cargraphic.
I went for a ride once in a 500+BHP turbo in the rain, driven by Phil from Tech9 in liverpool. Whilst i was impressed, with the the grunt, it did understeer and felt pretty sanitised. Phil did say to me "its not an RS though, is it!"
There was an article floating around from Autocar mag. On a survey of the top 100 performance cars of all time, the RS scored second behind the McLaren F1. They reckoned, the RS is the best sportscar other than what a whole heap of many can buy.
Its your choice?
Regards
Phil Evans
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04-21-2003, 01:49 AM
#8
Hi Paul,
As everyone says it all depends. Everyones got their personal wants and needs as do you . I have driven both and did find the RS more connected but the visceral thrill of the turbos power clinched the day. Plus on a daily basis, I thought the Turbo was a better car. Again it's all personal. You have to get behind the wheel of both of them and not just a drive around the lot but somewhwere where you can push a little (without overstepping the bounds of decency..) And I would test drive the RS first....
Best of luck on your choice <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
cheers,
Kris
'97 993tt
'89 964 C4
As everyone says it all depends. Everyones got their personal wants and needs as do you . I have driven both and did find the RS more connected but the visceral thrill of the turbos power clinched the day. Plus on a daily basis, I thought the Turbo was a better car. Again it's all personal. You have to get behind the wheel of both of them and not just a drive around the lot but somewhwere where you can push a little (without overstepping the bounds of decency..) And I would test drive the RS first....
Best of luck on your choice <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
cheers,
Kris
'97 993tt
'89 964 C4
04-21-2003, 01:38 PM
#9
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Paul,
I use a 993TT as a daily driver in all seasons, and track it frequently as well. It's a wonderfully well-rounded machine, and fairly practical for everyday use.
With 245/35-18 front P-Zero C rubber and a PSS-9 suspension and RS bars, it has very neutral handling on the track, with no significant understeer.
You can't go wrong with either choice, but I do think the TT would be the more practical option, particularly given the poor weather and road conditions that you encounter in GB. Best of luck in your search!
I use a 993TT as a daily driver in all seasons, and track it frequently as well. It's a wonderfully well-rounded machine, and fairly practical for everyday use.
With 245/35-18 front P-Zero C rubber and a PSS-9 suspension and RS bars, it has very neutral handling on the track, with no significant understeer.
You can't go wrong with either choice, but I do think the TT would be the more practical option, particularly given the poor weather and road conditions that you encounter in GB. Best of luck in your search!
04-21-2003, 03:35 PM
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Thanks for all your input guys. I wasn't sure if there would be much response, so I posted the title in both 993 and 993TT sections. I needn't have worried!
I really am split 50 / 50 on this one as I can see benefits from both sides. It doesn't even come down to money, as both are the same price in the uk now. The only difference could be the running costs. With almost half the mechanical gubbins the RS must be slightly cheaper in the long run - no turbo replacement etc. I'm sure the RS will hold it's value slightly better too. If I were an accountant this should be an easy call! Luckily I'm not, and I just want to have fun.
This question has caused lots of debate with all I've spoken to. It really does seem that a lot of enthusiasts end up buying an RS in the end though, even after 500bhp TT monsters in some cases. This would almost seem like a 'downgrade' on paper, but it's obviously not for many. It's almost like the RS is the pinnacle of motoring nirvana for your senses.
I wonder if the 993RS with a bolt on supercharger conversion might just be the best of both worlds. Still a tricky one though.
I really am split 50 / 50 on this one as I can see benefits from both sides. It doesn't even come down to money, as both are the same price in the uk now. The only difference could be the running costs. With almost half the mechanical gubbins the RS must be slightly cheaper in the long run - no turbo replacement etc. I'm sure the RS will hold it's value slightly better too. If I were an accountant this should be an easy call! Luckily I'm not, and I just want to have fun.
This question has caused lots of debate with all I've spoken to. It really does seem that a lot of enthusiasts end up buying an RS in the end though, even after 500bhp TT monsters in some cases. This would almost seem like a 'downgrade' on paper, but it's obviously not for many. It's almost like the RS is the pinnacle of motoring nirvana for your senses.
I wonder if the 993RS with a bolt on supercharger conversion might just be the best of both worlds. Still a tricky one though.
04-21-2003, 03:44 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by PaulDixon:
<strong>I wonder if the 993RS with a bolt on supercharger conversion might just be the best of both worlds. Still a tricky one though.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">How about a 993 RS with the RUF turbo engine? I think RUF can turn a typical 993 engine into a turbo monster for about $18 - 20K. I'm not sure about an RS 3.8L engine, but I don't see why it couldn't be done.
<strong>I wonder if the 993RS with a bolt on supercharger conversion might just be the best of both worlds. Still a tricky one though.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">How about a 993 RS with the RUF turbo engine? I think RUF can turn a typical 993 engine into a turbo monster for about $18 - 20K. I'm not sure about an RS 3.8L engine, but I don't see why it couldn't be done.
04-21-2003, 03:48 PM
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Just in case the TT v RS wasn't tricky enough, how about modded TT v modded RS, lol...
Another possibility to mull over. I wonder if a TT modified with RS suspension would be a good compromise. How much sharper can the TT become? You could ditch the heavy electric seats, remove the rear ones too, pop in some carbon buckets instead. Would save a 100kg for not much cash. Might be a good all round solution.
Anir, I've already seen a 993RS for sale with the TT GT2 engine! Bit pricey though, and the steering wheel was on the wrong side!
Another possibility to mull over. I wonder if a TT modified with RS suspension would be a good compromise. How much sharper can the TT become? You could ditch the heavy electric seats, remove the rear ones too, pop in some carbon buckets instead. Would save a 100kg for not much cash. Might be a good all round solution.
Anir, I've already seen a 993RS for sale with the TT GT2 engine! Bit pricey though, and the steering wheel was on the wrong side!
04-22-2003, 02:32 AM
#13
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for what its's worth... <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />
i think...the rs suspension may sharpen the tt's handling alittle... but the cost vs benefit would certainly keep it low on my list.
shaving a hundred kilos will cost you a little more than two seats. I've worked on this for awhile now(i think Anir should have a thing or two to say about weight savings)... my own conclusion is to drop the front diffs and prop shaft. that should give it the ultimate feel and response... (that is if... i ever sort out the geometry)
anyways... the point of me entering this conversation is... imo the tt makes a superb GT car. my rationale is... if i were to spend that much money on a GT sportscar(as upposed to a clubsport ), i want to whup some supercar butt.(no pun on any lesser marques here
)
say what you want... the feeling of being king on the road = priceless <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />
Also, chances are, it would take a veteran professional to drive the RS at its absolute limit(that far exceeds any enthusiast level) in order to attain a track time similar to a gentleman clubsport (weekend racer) driven turbo.
In terms of raw ability, the TT is hard to beat... at least for a mere mortal like myself.
The RS may put a smile on your face and make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside... but so would half a dozen cars for a quarter of the price.
but damnit!!!...
everytime i get into my car those horns on my head start to grow.
... and those voices in my head tell me that
I AM FASTER THAN YOU
... MOVE OUT OF THE FAST LANE <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" /> ... OR PREPARE TO BE ANOTHER STATISTIC... PEASANT! <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
but thats just me.
coincidentally, those voices often tell me to do silly things which i half regret most of the time anyways. (apparently a chronic debilitating disease commonly afflicting many rennlisters also)
<img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" />
*disclaimer*
(this post is not intended to start a flame or dispute... just a tribute to a great all round tourer.. in my own opinion) <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
i think...the rs suspension may sharpen the tt's handling alittle... but the cost vs benefit would certainly keep it low on my list.
shaving a hundred kilos will cost you a little more than two seats. I've worked on this for awhile now(i think Anir should have a thing or two to say about weight savings)... my own conclusion is to drop the front diffs and prop shaft. that should give it the ultimate feel and response... (that is if... i ever sort out the geometry)
anyways... the point of me entering this conversation is... imo the tt makes a superb GT car. my rationale is... if i were to spend that much money on a GT sportscar(as upposed to a clubsport ), i want to whup some supercar butt.(no pun on any lesser marques here
) say what you want... the feeling of being king on the road = priceless <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />
Also, chances are, it would take a veteran professional to drive the RS at its absolute limit(that far exceeds any enthusiast level) in order to attain a track time similar to a gentleman clubsport (weekend racer) driven turbo.
In terms of raw ability, the TT is hard to beat... at least for a mere mortal like myself.
The RS may put a smile on your face and make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside... but so would half a dozen cars for a quarter of the price.
but damnit!!!...
everytime i get into my car those horns on my head start to grow.
... and those voices in my head tell me that
I AM FASTER THAN YOU
... MOVE OUT OF THE FAST LANE <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" /> ... OR PREPARE TO BE ANOTHER STATISTIC... PEASANT! <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> but thats just me.
coincidentally, those voices often tell me to do silly things which i half regret most of the time anyways. (apparently a chronic debilitating disease commonly afflicting many rennlisters also)
<img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" />
*disclaimer*
(this post is not intended to start a flame or dispute... just a tribute to a great all round tourer.. in my own opinion) <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
