993 tt price
04-28-2003, 02:14 PM
#1
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993 tt price
A porsche dealer in CT just sold a midnight blue/tan 993tt with 11k miles for $74k.
Is this a reasonable price?
What should i expect to pay for a similar low mileage car?
Is this a reasonable price?
What should i expect to pay for a similar low mileage car?
04-28-2003, 02:58 PM
#2
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It seems that the 1997 TTs are bringing a few more bucks (up to $5k) than the identical 1996 TTs. I think the price for a low mileage car is reasonable for a 1997 TT. Have you been looking at eBay also?
My own preference was to pay less, and get a higher mileage car that I could drive, and not feel I was depreciating too badly. If you look at the thread on this board entitled (something like) "selling my turbo cars", the Arena red 1996 has pretty low mileage, and will be sold for a lot less.
My own preference was to pay less, and get a higher mileage car that I could drive, and not feel I was depreciating too badly. If you look at the thread on this board entitled (something like) "selling my turbo cars", the Arena red 1996 has pretty low mileage, and will be sold for a lot less.
04-28-2003, 03:36 PM
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Actually I posted the previous message before completion (actually i hit the tab and space and it got posted???).
Anyway, the board members were very helpful, but most found it to be about 5k more than what i should pay.
As I got the exact color combo from a dealer with warranty (both for important to me.) I am in the process of buying it. PPI and test drives ofcourse worked out.
But you can find cars for 60k with various other color combo.
But if this is the car you want, I personally think not too many come from dealers(but,I only have about a 6 month experience in activly searching for cars)
Anyway, the board members were very helpful, but most found it to be about 5k more than what i should pay.
As I got the exact color combo from a dealer with warranty (both for important to me.) I am in the process of buying it. PPI and test drives ofcourse worked out.
But you can find cars for 60k with various other color combo.
But if this is the car you want, I personally think not too many come from dealers(but,I only have about a 6 month experience in activly searching for cars)
04-28-2003, 03:48 PM
#6
I've been shopping for "the one" for seemingly ages.
Prices are directly geared to mileage.
Condition and history are secondary -- which stinks -- but don't stray from the path, get a solid, documented history and, in my humble opinion, condition and service history and small number of previous owners are key. Even with low miles, these cars are six or eight years old and should have at least one oil change per year, plus annual maintenance even with "zero" miles. Then again, there's a speed yellow car for sale that is literally still "new" (never owned or titled) for sale around $100K.
The price doesn't drop until the mileage is over 20K ('96 or '97) and then another step down around 30K miles. Cars under 10K command a premium -- if you pay that premium, realise you?ll be driving yourself out of it and the only value of the low miles would be condition. I've seen cars in the 10 to 20K range in the same condition as cars under 8K miles.
There is no way to set the price of a '96 versus a '97, it's all case by case and '96 cars are not significantly cheaper even though it's possible to be looking at two cars, one built in '95 with 35K miles and one built in '97, two years younger, with 35K miles and the price (for the same paint and condition) will be much the same.
Keep in mind that options on the window sticker account for practically zero value on resale. I mention this because this benefits you, the buyer, you can shop around for a car with sports seats or motor sound package, aluminium trim in the cabin or whatever matters to you and the price will be much the same.
Until about December, the price of the 993 Turbo was holding high, it seemed to dip on average about ten or even fifteen thousand since then and, it seems to me, prices have recently recovered perhaps five thousand on average, but cars are"sitting" on the maket a little longer and there seems to be a higher number of sub-standard cars in the mix.
A clean, straight, one-owner ?97 Turbo with 20K miles should change hands around $75K from what I see week to week. Even higher mileage cars with multiple owners still seem to find buyers with $70K plus to spend. I see no merit in cars being offered above the mid 80's, they're nothing special, unless perhaps you're interested in a Gemballa, Ruf or perhaps even Andial built engine, in which case these cars can become real bargains if properly inspected and offered with full documentation.
Personally, I would look for a car that has zero modifications, even resting on the original US-spec suspension -- the higher suspension has two advantages: one, it indicates the owner was not ever really using the car's performance capabilities and two, the elevated ride height protects the front bumper cover from scraps on the chin.
Colour is key -- black and silver pull top dollar, red, yellow and even white (a personal favourite) are marginal and blue, green and odd-ball colour schemes just plain don't sell as quickly as the black and silver cars. If you like a particular colour, consider resale value if that matters -- each to his own. It seems that a black interior is important to resale value but cashmere or grey don't really effect the price much, but those cars, again, seem to stay on the market while a black/black or silver/black car will command higher dollars. If you?re keeping the car forever, then buy what you find that you will enjoy. If you're possibly selling it in three or five years or whatever, then the greatest cost of ownership will be depreciation.
Back to your search.
How do you know the selling price from the dealer? Unless you know the buyer, with respect, you simply don't know.
A simple rule of thumb: "Dealers don't have a working relationship with reality or the truth."
Some dealers are better than others (I like Ray at <a href="http://www.RPMMotorSports.com" target="_blank">www.RPMMotorSports.com</a> for instance and he has an impressive selection of market-priced cars in above-average condition -- I mention that shop, in Texas, even though I'm in California, because you seem interested in an above average car with lower miles. But I've had some really terrible experiences with other dealerships that clearly prey on the Porsche enthusiast market and "talk the talk" to lure in the trusting and the gullible alike. There's a few anecdotes on these forums from people that have had entirely unpleasant experiences. Which is sad -- shouldn't buying your Porsche be something really enjoyable? Grumble, grumble.
Anyway, as for price. If you're buying a low-miler, there's a few on offer in the high 70's and any car with 10K miles advertised just over $80K is probably to be had in the high 70's anyway.
If money is something you pour like water from a garden hose, consider the Turbo S -- it has retained value but, like the Turbo, it has dropped recently. Prices were invariably above $110K to $115K with some "asking" much higher numbers, but now it's common to see a Turbo S offered very close to $100K and perhaps a higher mileage car shows up under the psychological number of 100 from time to time. If you're getting this a weekender and keeping the miles down, you could find a Turbo S is, along with the '98 C2S, the only Porsche likely to appreciate in price over the next decade. I don?t see much at a cosmetic or mechanical level of value in the Turbo S but there's no denying its cachet and resale value.
Whatever you do, get an expert in Turbos to do a PPI, compression and leak-down tests, check out common points of failure (clutch, first gear, steering box) all of which can add thousands to your first year of maintenance bills.
And finally, if you happen across a Turbo with sunroof-delete and rear-wiper delete, please notify me -- I'll ignore everything I've just written and buy the thing no matter if someone has put second-hand S02's on backwards, bought brake pads from a supermarket and put a DVD player in for the back seat passengers and mentioned enjoying "lighting 'em up to show off for the ladies" and occasionally hauling gravel in the trunk when his pick-up was "broke down." ...
Prices are directly geared to mileage.
Condition and history are secondary -- which stinks -- but don't stray from the path, get a solid, documented history and, in my humble opinion, condition and service history and small number of previous owners are key. Even with low miles, these cars are six or eight years old and should have at least one oil change per year, plus annual maintenance even with "zero" miles. Then again, there's a speed yellow car for sale that is literally still "new" (never owned or titled) for sale around $100K.
The price doesn't drop until the mileage is over 20K ('96 or '97) and then another step down around 30K miles. Cars under 10K command a premium -- if you pay that premium, realise you?ll be driving yourself out of it and the only value of the low miles would be condition. I've seen cars in the 10 to 20K range in the same condition as cars under 8K miles.
There is no way to set the price of a '96 versus a '97, it's all case by case and '96 cars are not significantly cheaper even though it's possible to be looking at two cars, one built in '95 with 35K miles and one built in '97, two years younger, with 35K miles and the price (for the same paint and condition) will be much the same.
Keep in mind that options on the window sticker account for practically zero value on resale. I mention this because this benefits you, the buyer, you can shop around for a car with sports seats or motor sound package, aluminium trim in the cabin or whatever matters to you and the price will be much the same.
Until about December, the price of the 993 Turbo was holding high, it seemed to dip on average about ten or even fifteen thousand since then and, it seems to me, prices have recently recovered perhaps five thousand on average, but cars are"sitting" on the maket a little longer and there seems to be a higher number of sub-standard cars in the mix.
A clean, straight, one-owner ?97 Turbo with 20K miles should change hands around $75K from what I see week to week. Even higher mileage cars with multiple owners still seem to find buyers with $70K plus to spend. I see no merit in cars being offered above the mid 80's, they're nothing special, unless perhaps you're interested in a Gemballa, Ruf or perhaps even Andial built engine, in which case these cars can become real bargains if properly inspected and offered with full documentation.
Personally, I would look for a car that has zero modifications, even resting on the original US-spec suspension -- the higher suspension has two advantages: one, it indicates the owner was not ever really using the car's performance capabilities and two, the elevated ride height protects the front bumper cover from scraps on the chin.
Colour is key -- black and silver pull top dollar, red, yellow and even white (a personal favourite) are marginal and blue, green and odd-ball colour schemes just plain don't sell as quickly as the black and silver cars. If you like a particular colour, consider resale value if that matters -- each to his own. It seems that a black interior is important to resale value but cashmere or grey don't really effect the price much, but those cars, again, seem to stay on the market while a black/black or silver/black car will command higher dollars. If you?re keeping the car forever, then buy what you find that you will enjoy. If you're possibly selling it in three or five years or whatever, then the greatest cost of ownership will be depreciation.
Back to your search.
How do you know the selling price from the dealer? Unless you know the buyer, with respect, you simply don't know.
A simple rule of thumb: "Dealers don't have a working relationship with reality or the truth."
Some dealers are better than others (I like Ray at <a href="http://www.RPMMotorSports.com" target="_blank">www.RPMMotorSports.com</a> for instance and he has an impressive selection of market-priced cars in above-average condition -- I mention that shop, in Texas, even though I'm in California, because you seem interested in an above average car with lower miles. But I've had some really terrible experiences with other dealerships that clearly prey on the Porsche enthusiast market and "talk the talk" to lure in the trusting and the gullible alike. There's a few anecdotes on these forums from people that have had entirely unpleasant experiences. Which is sad -- shouldn't buying your Porsche be something really enjoyable? Grumble, grumble.
Anyway, as for price. If you're buying a low-miler, there's a few on offer in the high 70's and any car with 10K miles advertised just over $80K is probably to be had in the high 70's anyway.
If money is something you pour like water from a garden hose, consider the Turbo S -- it has retained value but, like the Turbo, it has dropped recently. Prices were invariably above $110K to $115K with some "asking" much higher numbers, but now it's common to see a Turbo S offered very close to $100K and perhaps a higher mileage car shows up under the psychological number of 100 from time to time. If you're getting this a weekender and keeping the miles down, you could find a Turbo S is, along with the '98 C2S, the only Porsche likely to appreciate in price over the next decade. I don?t see much at a cosmetic or mechanical level of value in the Turbo S but there's no denying its cachet and resale value.
Whatever you do, get an expert in Turbos to do a PPI, compression and leak-down tests, check out common points of failure (clutch, first gear, steering box) all of which can add thousands to your first year of maintenance bills.
And finally, if you happen across a Turbo with sunroof-delete and rear-wiper delete, please notify me -- I'll ignore everything I've just written and buy the thing no matter if someone has put second-hand S02's on backwards, bought brake pads from a supermarket and put a DVD player in for the back seat passengers and mentioned enjoying "lighting 'em up to show off for the ladies" and occasionally hauling gravel in the trunk when his pick-up was "broke down." ...
04-28-2003, 04:06 PM
#7
Sorry I was so brief with that last post ... I should add that east coast US prices are noticeably lower than west coast. Another year of economic doldrums will likely see prices of "high line" cars in the secondary market trace lower as the primary (new) market is already suffering very low numbers. Worse still, as the incentives yield a new cycle of owners with lower cost basis, market prices will correct lower as these owners dispose of their cars. The market is already exhibiting this depreciation in the 996 Carrera and Turbo market (discounted new prices forcing down retained value.) Conversely, the 993 is presently in something of a supply and demand balance with obviously finite supply -- this favours owners over time. One could "speculate" on the 993 -- buy one to drive and one to preserve. Today, the '98 C2S, with 10K miles and now five years old sells around the original MSRP -- that's a pretty impressive car to have on the books. By contrast, a '96 or '97 Turbo with 10K miles is say $80K -- down at least US$40K dollars plus six or seven years of operating costs and to have travelled not even the distance of one year of regular driving -- that strikes me as an expensive garage queen.
Porsche is clearly retracing its steps with the 996 (ending the series with wide-body variants) but I don't expect them to recapture the same "classic" and collectible value.
Anyway, that's my two cents' worth.
Porsche is clearly retracing its steps with the 996 (ending the series with wide-body variants) but I don't expect them to recapture the same "classic" and collectible value.
Anyway, that's my two cents' worth.
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04-28-2003, 07:42 PM
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Thanks for the quality info. I appreciate it.
I was looking for about a year, and there does seem to be a step function, where 30k cars are about $65, and 10k cars are being asked at $80, and selling for $75k plus. That is a west coast observation, on 1996. But everyone on the board appears to think the prices should be about $5k lower, and I just haven't found that.
I looked for quite some time, primarily to find the color that I wanted, and to be sure that I really wanted a 993tt not a 996tt or something else. (the 996tt are just so compelling a buy right now at least compared to list).
I was looking for about a year, and there does seem to be a step function, where 30k cars are about $65, and 10k cars are being asked at $80, and selling for $75k plus. That is a west coast observation, on 1996. But everyone on the board appears to think the prices should be about $5k lower, and I just haven't found that.
I looked for quite some time, primarily to find the color that I wanted, and to be sure that I really wanted a 993tt not a 996tt or something else. (the 996tt are just so compelling a buy right now at least compared to list).
04-28-2003, 08:22 PM
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Thanks for the thoughtful response.
This confirms what I have seen as I have looked over the last year. 30k 1996's are in the mid $60s, and as you get down to 10k mile cars the asking price is often $80k, but the selling price is around $75k. The east coast seems to be about $3 to $5k cheaper.
I waited a year to find the right color and condition, and to make sure I really wanted a 993tt.
This confirms what I have seen as I have looked over the last year. 30k 1996's are in the mid $60s, and as you get down to 10k mile cars the asking price is often $80k, but the selling price is around $75k. The east coast seems to be about $3 to $5k cheaper.
I waited a year to find the right color and condition, and to make sure I really wanted a 993tt.
04-29-2003, 02:11 AM
#11
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Some great advice from Carrera GT. Just my .02, though. I bought my blk/blk TT about a year ago, paid $72k for it and haven't looked back since. If you find one that's the perfect color, condition, mileage, PPI, etc. then buy it. Hopefully it's the perfect price as well, but don't sweat it for a couple thousand. Paying a bit more to get exactly what you want isn't really all that much in the long run. You may search for years or worse, never find one with exactly all the specs perfect. In the meantime you may be missing out on one of the greatest joys in life. Driving a 993 TT! Good luck on your search <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
04-29-2003, 08:53 AM
#12
How does 120k sound? 
That's what i paid for my Artic Silver with grey interior (plus sports seats)! But at least I get 97 octane at the pump everywhere I go <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> ....
cheers,
Kris
'97 993tt 430Hp turbo s upgrade
'89 964 C4
That's what i paid for my Artic Silver with grey interior (plus sports seats)! But at least I get 97 octane at the pump everywhere I go <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> ....cheers,
Kris
'97 993tt 430Hp turbo s upgrade
'89 964 C4
04-29-2003, 12:41 PM
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Thank you. And yes, the color is preferred to me,and quite unusual, but I will be $5k high or so by the board's viewpoint.
One thing that bothers me is all this Check Engine Light emissions faults. This I assume will create a real issue going forward in CA to register these cars, or other states where they do it? I don't want to do an engine rebuild for something so trivial, and that I am told only has application on startup not when the engine is warm.
How do those that have the light accommodate/tolerate it?
Richard
One thing that bothers me is all this Check Engine Light emissions faults. This I assume will create a real issue going forward in CA to register these cars, or other states where they do it? I don't want to do an engine rebuild for something so trivial, and that I am told only has application on startup not when the engine is warm.
How do those that have the light accommodate/tolerate it?
Richard
04-29-2003, 01:16 PM
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Richard - the price you pay is up to you, of course. If you have no preference in color, options, etc., then you have a shot at a great deal - perhaps low 60s to mid 50s, depending on mileage. I paid a premium for my car - over 80K - last January. It is a Polar Silver / Black 1996 car and had 20K on it. It had almost $30K in upgrades though, including a 500+ HP package installed by Weissach. I was lucky in that it had basically the exact cosmetic and performance mods I would have made to a stock car. If you save $5K by looking for the best deal at the expense of what you really want in the car I suspect you will regret it in the long run.
04-29-2003, 01:26 PM
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Richard - I'm not sure what your concern about the CEL is. These cars are 50 state cars. I bought one from Texas and registered it in California. Passed smog with no problems. The CEL light won't come on unless something is wrong with the emissions system or other problems for that matter. Unless you plan on removing or changing the emissions system, you should not have any problems with CEL.
Eric
Eric