Don,
sorry, can u elaborate a bit? Bottom end--meaning lower rpm?

i'm just looking toward future and trying to learn about different tuners.

thanks

ray

 

Don is refering to the "bottom end" of the 911 engine... the crank, rods, oil pump, and bearings. You have to split the case and do a total disassembly to replace worn parts and do some upgrades for the extra power. Its an extra conservative, but safer approach when building a high horsepower engine with more than just a few miles on the clock. This is the whole enchildada.

 

I have the full Andial conversion. Oil coolers, etc. Totally driveable on the street but what power! I never hard launch from 1st gear, just wait untill 2nd then let it fly! Have the AWD system in place, cats on (have bypasses which I took off for smog check). This is a great, well thought out conversion/upgrade.

I believe a total of 18 Andial motors have been done There have been 2 failures of the old ECU so they are replacing them with the new one. I am waiting for them to place the order. The old ECU has difficutly with the OBDII and smog checks are challenging.

You will love it!

 

The old ECU is the programable Thielert box. Since it is no longer made and the software is proprietary, it is difficult to replace if there is a malfunction. I've have both and there is no question that the new box, which is a special box from FVD, that will work with the twin plug system and still interface with the porsche car controls has superior street driveability.

I like the Theilert box for the track as it has two programs. One for 91 octane (CA) and the other for 100 race gas. In addition it has a shift light I find very helpful for track duties. I've run accelerometer test (Passport G Pro) and the Thielert is about 4 mph faster in the quarter mile, and 2-3 tenths faster. Thats the difference between being smog legal and barely smog legal.

 

If the Andial conversion is using Thielert does that mean you guys are basically driving a GT2-EVO?

 

Jason
The Gt2 Evo has a solid lifter cam that has more radical valve timing. If you ever see one close up they idle at 1500 rpm. Most were single spark ignition systems and K27 turbos. With 40 mm air restrictors they were rated at 600hp. TB993 could tell you what type of intercooler they used, i do know it was a very pricey piece.

Andial much like Ruf underrates their hp rating. They advertise 570 hp on the 3.8 and I'm told that
most with 100 octane will pull over 600. So, ya its like an GT2 evo on the street.

 

Jason,

Many of the racing GT2 EVOs used the French TAG (Technique D'Avant Garde)adjustable ECU, but they are similar in concept, as is the Motec. Some are better in certain things and some are not. The key thing is to find someone who knows how to program it. Under race conditions, and at the time, these types of ECUs were advantageous because of their flexibility to tune among other things as well as because they were smaller houses and more flexible, rather than the Motronic, managing twin plugs with Motronic under a racing environment is more rigid. Nowadays they know better.

The EVO used a Secan intercooler, I have been told just yesterday by a friend who runs a leading German Porsche team that it used to yield "only" 12hp but able to maintain them in racing conditions. (TB there goes the answer to your bet, if Secan yields 12hp, you are safe )

The GT2 EVO cams as Jim said need the solid lifters, I put them in mine, the RPMs will idle around 1k-1.1k RPMs, there are more radical cams for racing only that will keep your idle revs at 1500 and obviously undrivable on the street. The other difference with Andial setup and the GT2 EVO is the pressure sensing setup rather than MAF.

From what I read, Andial's package is the ideal street package, the clutch is my only question mark, is it drivable on the street and how good does it perform? Mine is a bit difficult and I am starting to look for replacements albeit running the risk of slippage in higher gears, but it starting to be annoying in the city.

Dan, would you have any 60-130 or quartermile times you could share on the 60-130 thread? Isn't hp addictive
Sorry for the OT.

 

I thought with Thielert doing all the GT2 development work for Porsche Motorsports that they might have used their own ECU but I guess they hadn't yet developed one? Or was it a sponsorship issue or something else?

 

Very interesting Jean - I presume that they mean it would yield 12hp compared to the original pressure sensing Porsche Motorsports intercooler which looked like a stock 993tt I/C but had more core surface area and obviously the pressure sensing flanges - this is not good since those I/Cs were rated as not good by RS and the Secan only gets 12hp on top of that ! My 10hp is not going to happen is it
I remember RS said that the Secan intercooler would always cool to within 20DegC above ambient
Re the clutch - RS put a new clutch in my car which I think is from the 996tt, it is organic with metal bits in it I think and is OK to use. My missus stalls a bit with it but I find it no problem and I commute in stop/go traffic and it holds the torque, unlike the old 980NM FVD one I had. If you need specifics I can find the details.

 

I have the light flywheel and matching clutch set up. I can't locate the details on the clutch. I can tell you that it takes a bit of getting used to (need to have the revs a bit higher on a take off) and the engine/clutch bucks when speed/RPMs are low. In other words, creeping along in traffic can be a pain and just takes some getting used to. I also have different gears in the tranny, but can't locate the data on that work. I will keep looking.

I don't have any performance numbers.

Arnold told me that Thielert had abandoned the automotive market and is concentrating on aerospace applications (planes, not space ships). Thielert no longer services thier units. So the move to a re-programmed Bosch unit, losing the second program. Honestly, I have plenty of fun in Program 1 on pump gas.

 

TB, I am checking about the intercooler data on the Porsche Motorsports unit and will revert back, good comment.

About the clutch, what Dan described is similar to what I am experiencing, it is very high, I have about 2" of engagement up top, and the car shakes badly if I don't launch it properly, I feel the gear lever will come out of its place! I do have some slippage, but not much. Pedal pressure is excellent, very soft. I have a picture of my clutch setup that I can post to compare.

TB I remember you did post about your clutch I will try to find the thread.
Dan, if you could find the gearbox changes and ratios it would be fantastic and very interesting.
Thanks.
Jean

 

Tony Callas did the tranny upgrade. Steel synchros and some other goodies. Tony used all Porsche Motorsports components. He had the car for 6 weeks! This was about 4 years ago. I have the receipts but there is no detail. My partner had the work done; now I have the car. BTW, I am the second owner of the car , it was originally purchased new by my partner. I will try to get Tony to dig up the details. He did send me the invoice copies from his computer but as stated, no details!

I don't have shaking at launch and as long as RPM is around 1500, no problem. Just slip the clutch a bit, take it easy on the throttle and go. The shaking I have (bucking really) is at low speed/low RPM in traffic. I just disengage the clutch, shift down, rev up, slip as necessary. Not a big deal now, but it took some getting used too.

No talk of brake upgrades? I strongly urge you to consider the Stoptech upgrade. Far superior to Porsche big brakes (yes, improvements are possible) and blows away any Brembo upgrade. Andial uses Brembo upgrades and equipped their test car with Brembos. On the street, factory brakes are more than sufficient but at the track Stoptech is superior. No, I don't work for them, just enthusiastic about their product, engineering, etc.

 

Dan, sounds amazing!
I will check out the brakes upgrade as well, thanks.
To avoid further hijack, I posted the reply to the Secan question on TB's thread on intercoolers next door .

BTW, the 6 Piston Brembos (F40) are almost only bigger rotors basically, nothing like the 6 piston monoblock brakes, still good for street driving of course.

 

Jean - I'd be interested in seeing what clutch setup you are using.

 

Let me add my .02 on the subject of clutches. Since I've experimented with several and found the limitations of the GT2 set up is about 540 lb ft of torque. The pressure plate doesn't have enough clamping force. I've gone to semi racing, etc. which are not streetable. Then I met a guy with a 700hp 993tt who was having the same problem. He did what most hot rodders do, he went to Clutchmasters and had them modify the GT2 pressure plate with 20% more clamping force. I now have a clutch that has the engagement feel of a stock clutch and grips like a pit bull, and can handle up to 650 lb ft. of torque.