adsc4s

I also doubt you can duplicate with bolt on for 1/2 the Ruf amount. I am pretty muched maxed out in terms of bolt on mods including ZC hybrid turbos, GIAC custom programming, PSS9's, CG oil cooler, LWF and GT2 clutch, muffler bypasses, Ruf wheels, and a bunch of the miscellaneous and I can tell you, it is WAY more than $12.5K.

In fact, when I add things up, I shouldv'e just sent the car over to RUF!

SPR

Wow someone is a little ticked. I am pretty frugal and am going to do Kevin's hybrids, already have pss9's,02 turbo twists, pagids, trg rear bar, (bigger than ruf and more adjustable), ruf cooler, S strut bar, and will do giac tuning diverterv valves etc. Which should yield about the same deal for actually less than half.

SPR

I didn't see the above thread and didn't include the things I already had, so maybe for a bit more but still it's a bunch less no? Don't get me wrong I think ruf stuff is great but it is $$$$$

adsc4s

Hey Sean,

No doubt there is a premium on the Ruf stuff. However, unless you are doing all the work yourself, it isn't nearly as affordable as one would think. Just the ZC Stage 2 ceramic coated turbos and associated GIAC programming will run over $6K for the parts alone. Add the cooler, suspension, wheels, bypasses, porting and polishing, etc, you can easily spend another $10K. So for parts alone, you are looking at approximately $16K.

Damn, I didn't realize I was so close to the cost of the RUF upgrade!

ca993twin

Adison,

It sounds to me like the Ruf upgrade (~$25k) includes cams, head work, turbos, clutch, ECU, and exhaust. It does not include wheels or suspension. Not exactly cheap, but then Ruf HP is quite different from everyone else's HP. Expensive... but tempting.

tlark

Actually I was looking for a pic tjnif993t's car

Please keep us informed w/the possible Ruf conversion. As the new guy on the block with a turbo, I'm gonna weight my options and explore some possible HP upgrades. These threads are informative and good reading.

Rob 97 993c2

what type of hybrid turbos does Ruf use? The Ruf turbo R has been around since 98. Hasnt somebody built a better mousetrap in the last 7 years? Are Kevin's turbos are more efficient. I mean no offense to those who have the Ruf R and im using it as my 'goal', but given it is not free, it seems there could be a better solution. Also, from what i understand, the Ruf R does not include suspension.

SPR

I do the work myself

Earlierapex

Before I bought my car (89 930 cabriolet), I spent a lot of time looking at everything from 78 930s to 97 993TT with various performance packages to Ruf RCT Evos. I love the Ruf cache and all the mystique, but the truth is that there is no magic with engines. Anybody with a decent amount of knowledge and experience concerning air flow through an engine can tune to within similar parameters. Ruf does a great job of selling his magic and has built a really nice brand that a lot of people will pay up for. However, there are a number of very knowledgeable tuners around 911 turbos that can do more for less. No matter how you cut it, it's still just cams, heads, turbo size, intercooler size, fueling system, etc. Ruf can't do anything with any of that stuff that someone else can't do.

I had a lot of trouble and went back and forth. For me it came down to my little girls talking me into a convertible (which meant the 930 cab), and Ruf doesn't really support the older cars much (he still uses DMEs which are WAY, WAY dated technology).

You'll often hear Ruf fans justify the 100% increase in cost with the concept of this "total package" that can't be beat and that other guys just "bolt-on" cobbled together parts. Whatever. If you know anything at all about engines you know that you have to match the turbos, intake, exhaust, etc. That ain't rocket science.

I came very close to doing a Ruf RCT evo and finally decided that $60,000 for a 450hp engine (by the time it was all said and done and shipped to europe and back) was just damn crazy. You do keep more of the value with the Ruf because the resale is good, but the gross dollars will overwhelm the % saved (a $30,000 investment could depreciate 100% and a $60,000 investment could depreciate at 50% and you are "dollar" even).

I love the cars and may buy one someday because I think the mystique is totally awesome, but I would go into it knowing that I'm paying a tremendous amount for the mystique.

The 993TT conversion sounds more reasonable. Looks like that badge is only about $10,000. That's still a lot for a $15 piece of metal to go on the hood.

ca993twin

Derick,

Ruf is very secretive about his turbo mods, cams, ecu programming, and headwork... for good reason. He has a large R&D investment and doesn't want other tuners to reap the benefits of his work. Can I find similar parts, and find someone to put it all together? Maybe. Maybe not. We don't really know what Ruf does. Can I put together a similar HP package for less? Probably. Will it be guaranteed to work as well as the Ruf? No. You get to choose between paying a lot of money for a guaranteed product, or about half, and it may or may not work as well or last as long. There actually IS some rocket science in getting the package to play together.

I'm the original Mr. Cheapskate. My 67,000 mile TT still has the original turbos and clutch. They can't last forever, and someday I'll have to choose an upgrade path. While I can't really imagine me, Mr. Cheapskate, springing loose $25k for an upgrade... its still tempting. But that's just me.

JJayB

I've driven over a dozen modified 993tt at DE events and track days. My observation is that most modifications are NOT well integrated in improving the overall performance on the track or street for that matter. Ya, they will justify their dyno numbers, but thats about all. One car in particular, boost came on so late and violent that you couldn't get out of the corners and the owner told me he had 550 hp. Totally useless.
Rufs kit (sorry Bill) upgrades, provide exceptional performace. However, my Andial car hasn't been passed yet and that includes a certain yellow CTR2 . (pause, putting on flame retardent suit) OK, fire away.

ca993twin

JJB,

Your car is gruesome-fast. And its well-driven. But, just for yucks, roughly what did you pay for your engine/clutch work at Andial? I have a feeling its close to 2x Ruf's $25k. I think Andial is probably in the same league and same cost as Ruf for similar mods. What is your experience?

fc-racer

RUF kits almost always add value to the car, whereas most other boltons reduce the value of the car below stock. You might even get 60-70 cents on the dollar for RUF mods.

JJayB

ca993twin
The Andial mods go further than the RUF trubo R, so its apples to oranges. Ruf is smart as he keeps his mods for t he turbo R within the internal limits of the rods, which is 510-520 hp. A better comparison would be my engine to a CTR, which has internal modification and I have no idea as to the cost. Since I have hidden the recipts from myself and wife, and she gets equal decorating funding, It is not something I want to publicly admit to. I'm not trying to dodge your question, but I would budget 35-40k for a blueprinted 3.8 twin plug. There are some options that would raise the price some, whether you use the racing 3.8 barrrels and pistons which require machining the case, or the Mahle street (my term) version. Which intercooler one uses and clutch. I tested three clutch set-ups before we got one that held up to 600 ft lbs of torque. Dyno testing and run in $1200 a day.

Going fast is not cheap. Unless its a nickel rocket.

Tour18

I want you guys to know I am reading and re-reading every line you write.