which to buy, testarossa or 993 turbo...
05-27-2004, 01:38 PM
#16
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I had the opportunity to buy a special end of production run Ferrari 512 back in 1984. It had flairs front and rear with an incorporated rear wing, 9 & 11 x 15 inch single hub rims and the Testarossa engine (470 hp). The car was gorgeous red with black interior. I was in Switzerland at the time and I could have purchased the car for $28k US with only 5k Km on it. I almost bought the car when another car identical to this one with less mileage came in on a flat bed with a blown engine. I talked to the mechanic at Garage Dusse and he said they do that quite often. After thinking it over The Ferrari looked great but was very uncomfortable and rather stark on the interior and the thought of a blown engine as a common occurrence scared the day lights out of me..
I decided to continue my search, when I came across a beautiful modified SC with turbo body and 270 hp engine. After driving both cars I decided on the Porsche. I owned a stock SC at the time and this car was amazing for 1984. Although it was not as fast, did not handle as well and did not sound as good, I knew it was the car for me. I purchased the car shipped it back to the states and drove it for 19 years without anything more than needing a clutch. Sold it last year for 3 times what I paid for it.
I currently own a 965 turbo 3.6 although not as refined as a 993TT it will match every move if not out perform in its current state. To me nothing compares to the feel of a pre 996 911. The comfort the feel and the reliability are unsurpassed for a performance car and although it does not sound or look like a Ferrari it is the ultimate car for me.
I will let you in on one more thing. I have a customer who will go unnamed who helped federalize the first Ferraris that came into the US. Although he is a certified Ferrari and Lamborgini dealer and service station, his words to me is he would never own a Ferrari. He feels they have way to many problems for what they cost. I also have a 40 foot trailer full of engine blocks that he has traded me for parts because the engines get taken apart too many times.
If you are looking for a nice 993TT Protosport in NJ (973) 839-5353 (no affiliation) has two in the $65K+ range both in very nice condition from what I saw.
Good Luck on your dilemma.
I decided to continue my search, when I came across a beautiful modified SC with turbo body and 270 hp engine. After driving both cars I decided on the Porsche. I owned a stock SC at the time and this car was amazing for 1984. Although it was not as fast, did not handle as well and did not sound as good, I knew it was the car for me. I purchased the car shipped it back to the states and drove it for 19 years without anything more than needing a clutch. Sold it last year for 3 times what I paid for it.
I currently own a 965 turbo 3.6 although not as refined as a 993TT it will match every move if not out perform in its current state. To me nothing compares to the feel of a pre 996 911. The comfort the feel and the reliability are unsurpassed for a performance car and although it does not sound or look like a Ferrari it is the ultimate car for me.
I will let you in on one more thing. I have a customer who will go unnamed who helped federalize the first Ferraris that came into the US. Although he is a certified Ferrari and Lamborgini dealer and service station, his words to me is he would never own a Ferrari. He feels they have way to many problems for what they cost. I also have a 40 foot trailer full of engine blocks that he has traded me for parts because the engines get taken apart too many times.
If you are looking for a nice 993TT Protosport in NJ (973) 839-5353 (no affiliation) has two in the $65K+ range both in very nice condition from what I saw.
Good Luck on your dilemma.
05-27-2004, 02:40 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Thanx for the discussion guys, its very informative. To address some of your points and thoughts:
- I already participate in ferrari chat also, trying to get info...
- I love porsches, and think the build quality is better than ferrari
- I have never seen a testarossa sell for 40k$...If anyone sees one this cheap, in good shape, let me know. Most I saw were in the 58-65k range(asking price)
- The maintenance is likely horrendous on a ferrrari...On my 911's I did a lot of the work myself (valves/service etc), though I never dropped the engine. I was thinking of getting a lift, so I could do some of the work myself.
-part of the reason I am disenchanted with the 996 and boxter is that I really can't do any of the work myself due to access - I think I like to tinker...the cars just aren't "involving." And quite frankly, the structural feel of the build quality is poor compared to previous cars. I miss the solid "clunk" of closing the previous generation 911's door...
-couldnt one buy a testatrossa just after the service was done, and expect 2-3 fairly maintenance free years?
- Fact is that ferraris draw much more attention...and I think that might be fun to experience...plus, ooooh the looks...Not trying to be superficial, but most of us like being in an exotic...If I want to be in cognito, I'll drive the BMW...the looks of the car matter! How many of us criticize the appearance of some porsche models, and endear ourselves to others. A car in this price range should be a work of art...
-regarding the cost of maintenace on a ferrai - this does concern me. Maybe I'm getting delusional, and trying to convince myself that it's "not that bad." Right now I'm gutting and rehabing a small commercial building, and every time a conractor calls with a bid for ANYTHING, you can bet it's in multiples of 10,000$. I'm trying to tell myself that a 30K service on a testarrosa is JUST one plumbing bill, or electrical bill, or roof re-do, etc. Yep, I'm delusional.
-someone brought up the issue of a backseat and kids. I have 2 little boys, and a back seat would be great...there is nothonng like kids in life to make life worth living...
Appreciate folks thoughts, and keep them coming!
- I already participate in ferrari chat also, trying to get info...
- I love porsches, and think the build quality is better than ferrari
- I have never seen a testarossa sell for 40k$...If anyone sees one this cheap, in good shape, let me know. Most I saw were in the 58-65k range(asking price)
- The maintenance is likely horrendous on a ferrrari...On my 911's I did a lot of the work myself (valves/service etc), though I never dropped the engine. I was thinking of getting a lift, so I could do some of the work myself.
-part of the reason I am disenchanted with the 996 and boxter is that I really can't do any of the work myself due to access - I think I like to tinker...the cars just aren't "involving." And quite frankly, the structural feel of the build quality is poor compared to previous cars. I miss the solid "clunk" of closing the previous generation 911's door...
-couldnt one buy a testatrossa just after the service was done, and expect 2-3 fairly maintenance free years?
- Fact is that ferraris draw much more attention...and I think that might be fun to experience...plus, ooooh the looks...Not trying to be superficial, but most of us like being in an exotic...If I want to be in cognito, I'll drive the BMW...the looks of the car matter! How many of us criticize the appearance of some porsche models, and endear ourselves to others. A car in this price range should be a work of art...
-regarding the cost of maintenace on a ferrai - this does concern me. Maybe I'm getting delusional, and trying to convince myself that it's "not that bad." Right now I'm gutting and rehabing a small commercial building, and every time a conractor calls with a bid for ANYTHING, you can bet it's in multiples of 10,000$. I'm trying to tell myself that a 30K service on a testarrosa is JUST one plumbing bill, or electrical bill, or roof re-do, etc. Yep, I'm delusional.
-someone brought up the issue of a backseat and kids. I have 2 little boys, and a back seat would be great...there is nothonng like kids in life to make life worth living...
Appreciate folks thoughts, and keep them coming!
05-27-2004, 05:48 PM
#18
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bpu699,
Another point, I owned the Testarossa for a year and it was in the shop for service ($8.5k bill) for over 7 months; this just after I got a 30k service when I purchsed the car. This all from an authorized Ferrari dealership
Another point, I owned the Testarossa for a year and it was in the shop for service ($8.5k bill) for over 7 months; this just after I got a 30k service when I purchsed the car. This all from an authorized Ferrari dealership
05-27-2004, 06:28 PM
#19
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bpu699,
I was seriously shopping for a Ferrari before actually buying the 993TT. I test drove a 355 and 360 at Ferrari of Atlanta and a 456GT at Miller Motorcars in CT. After seeing all the problems on new and almost new Ferraris, and test driving the 993TT, I said to hell with Ferraris.
The 456GT had a delaminating rear windshield, leaking shocks, some electrical drain causing the battery to go dead every 24-48 hours, buckled leather on the dashboard, flaking valve cover coating, etc. I understand the window regulators like to break fairly often, along with numerous other items.
The BRAND NEW 360 had a driver's seat that kept sliding rearward under hard acceleration. The salesman told me that the mechanics had been unable to fix it despite four attempts. Having the seat come loose while driving does not inspire confidence.
I've read recent stories about Enzos breaking down on the first day of ownership. Then, there's the guys at the nsx website that detailed their painful Ferrari ownership experience in great detail.
Ferraris are definitely sexy cars with serious "soul", but it's pretty tough to rationalize one over a Porsche for any practical reason - financial, performance, or reliability. Who would you rather marry - the wild, flashy Latin girl who will cheat on you and decompensate at every opportunity, or ...?
I was seriously shopping for a Ferrari before actually buying the 993TT. I test drove a 355 and 360 at Ferrari of Atlanta and a 456GT at Miller Motorcars in CT. After seeing all the problems on new and almost new Ferraris, and test driving the 993TT, I said to hell with Ferraris.
The 456GT had a delaminating rear windshield, leaking shocks, some electrical drain causing the battery to go dead every 24-48 hours, buckled leather on the dashboard, flaking valve cover coating, etc. I understand the window regulators like to break fairly often, along with numerous other items.
The BRAND NEW 360 had a driver's seat that kept sliding rearward under hard acceleration. The salesman told me that the mechanics had been unable to fix it despite four attempts. Having the seat come loose while driving does not inspire confidence.
I've read recent stories about Enzos breaking down on the first day of ownership. Then, there's the guys at the nsx website that detailed their painful Ferrari ownership experience in great detail.
Ferraris are definitely sexy cars with serious "soul", but it's pretty tough to rationalize one over a Porsche for any practical reason - financial, performance, or reliability. Who would you rather marry - the wild, flashy Latin girl who will cheat on you and decompensate at every opportunity, or ...?
05-28-2004, 06:22 PM
#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
Alright, I must be a masochist...I'm still considering the testarossa...
Its like the blonde leggy bimbo in college. You would never marry her, knew she was after money, you worried that she might have "something" contagious, and knew she had been around. On the plus side, she was HOT. easy, and you knew she would do things for you the other girls wouldn't. Definitely not marriage material, but somehow life wouldnt have been the same if you hadn't been there at least once...
I'm sure I'll be on here in a couple of months complaining about the 15k$ tune up, knowing the tow-truck driver by name, and having the ferrari mechanic on speed-dial...
But the cost of having one of your childhood dream cars, "priceless."
My name is bo (everyone now, "Hi bo."),
and I am a masochist...
Its like the blonde leggy bimbo in college. You would never marry her, knew she was after money, you worried that she might have "something" contagious, and knew she had been around. On the plus side, she was HOT. easy, and you knew she would do things for you the other girls wouldn't. Definitely not marriage material, but somehow life wouldnt have been the same if you hadn't been there at least once...
I'm sure I'll be on here in a couple of months complaining about the 15k$ tune up, knowing the tow-truck driver by name, and having the ferrari mechanic on speed-dial...
But the cost of having one of your childhood dream cars, "priceless."
My name is bo (everyone now, "Hi bo."),
and I am a masochist...
05-28-2004, 06:41 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Bo,
I like your attitude; you just may be able to handle that leggy blonde...errr Testarossa. Please keep us posted.
A friend of mine bought a brand new Testarossa as an "investment", many years ago. I got a chance to drive it, very briefly. Fun. But as an investment, he would have been better off flushing hundred dollar bills down the toilet... kind of like my stock portfolio!
I like your attitude; you just may be able to handle that leggy blonde...errr Testarossa. Please keep us posted.
A friend of mine bought a brand new Testarossa as an "investment", many years ago. I got a chance to drive it, very briefly. Fun. But as an investment, he would have been better off flushing hundred dollar bills down the toilet... kind of like my stock portfolio!
05-28-2004, 07:04 PM
#22
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Based on your comments, you should go for it! You can't always let practicality stand in the way of your dreams. Owning at least one Ferrari in life is a satisfying experience, even if it bites you.
Just be careful and get a through inspection from an independent and knowledgable mechanic. Don't go to either extreme by getting either a "fixer" or "show car." You'll always be wanting to restore a fixer and it will cost a lot more than buying one in already good condition. The "show cars" will devalue quicker with your driving and many of them have standing-idle disease such that seals, hoses and other stuff will start going when you put it back into regular use.
Factor in the last major service when calculating value and don't be fooled into thinking that a car with a recent major service will be more reliable. The work done in a "major service" can vary considerably -- some people do the minimum while others have the engine cleaned and replace extra seals and hoses. My Boxer had a major service done just 4 months before I bought, done by a reasonably-well-known Ferrari mechanic. I spoke to the mechanic over the phone and he told me the car was in excellent shape so I relied on that and didn't have it inspected. When I got it back home, my mechanic there ragged about the service job every time he saw the car -- said the belt was not tight enough, engine was not cleaned, and a $20 leaking seal was not replaced and could not be reached after the engine was back in. The seal was leaking on the shifter bushing and caused that to go bad.
Good luck! A 993TT may still be in you future if you don't find something else more interesting before then.
Just be careful and get a through inspection from an independent and knowledgable mechanic. Don't go to either extreme by getting either a "fixer" or "show car." You'll always be wanting to restore a fixer and it will cost a lot more than buying one in already good condition. The "show cars" will devalue quicker with your driving and many of them have standing-idle disease such that seals, hoses and other stuff will start going when you put it back into regular use.
Factor in the last major service when calculating value and don't be fooled into thinking that a car with a recent major service will be more reliable. The work done in a "major service" can vary considerably -- some people do the minimum while others have the engine cleaned and replace extra seals and hoses. My Boxer had a major service done just 4 months before I bought, done by a reasonably-well-known Ferrari mechanic. I spoke to the mechanic over the phone and he told me the car was in excellent shape so I relied on that and didn't have it inspected. When I got it back home, my mechanic there ragged about the service job every time he saw the car -- said the belt was not tight enough, engine was not cleaned, and a $20 leaking seal was not replaced and could not be reached after the engine was back in. The seal was leaking on the shifter bushing and caused that to go bad.
Good luck! A 993TT may still be in you future if you don't find something else more interesting before then.
05-31-2004, 12:11 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Just remember one thing. Testarosa means "redhead" 
If it were the blond you described so well, 
I might agree with you. You see the red head is quite different, you know what they say about red heads!!! 
If it were the blond you described so well, I might agree with you. You see the red head is quite different, you know what they say about red heads!!!
06-01-2004, 04:22 PM
#24
Registered User
Thread Starter
Well, I'll keep you guys informed. Funny, someone mentioned the stock market...my losses over the last 5 years would have easily paid for both cars...oh well...it should come up at some point. Funny how we can rationalize things we wish to purchase...
In regards to the cost of fixing these toys - my wife has a great plan. She says I can take 10-15k each year toward my "car budget." If I don't waste it on maintenace, then I can sell my current car and add 15k$ to it each year and move up...I thought this was a sweet plan, and my wife gets full credit for being cool...
My budget is at 50k or so now, so another 3-4 years and I might be in supercar territory....assuming no maintenance issues
Any of you guys have a "plan" with your wife...
In regards to the cost of fixing these toys - my wife has a great plan. She says I can take 10-15k each year toward my "car budget." If I don't waste it on maintenace, then I can sell my current car and add 15k$ to it each year and move up...I thought this was a sweet plan, and my wife gets full credit for being cool...
My budget is at 50k or so now, so another 3-4 years and I might be in supercar territory....assuming no maintenance issues
Any of you guys have a "plan" with your wife...
06-01-2004, 04:26 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
My "plan" with my wife is more like "don't ask; don't tell". My stock porfolio is down an Enzo from where it was at its peak. Do I kick myself for being greedy? Yes, every day.
06-01-2004, 07:29 PM
#26
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Bo do us a favor. i dont care that you want a Ferrari that does
not bother me, in fact I love your passion. But do this. Your a business
man. Spread sheet out the Testarossa-even after a major service
consider worst cases, you'll have to do research on a valve job-clutch
job, etc etc including labor which I believe include removing the motor
for spark plugs. Then spread sheet a 355 and a 360. You might find a
360 at 130 or 140 maybe worth it just because of the ease of maint.
I dont think a 360 requires motor removal and I dont know about the
355. the 355 can be had in the 90's or 80's I think. which would be
the same as a testarossa and a new belt service!!
If you buy testarossa for say $70K and then have to do $30k in
maint its still worth 70K!!
not bother me, in fact I love your passion. But do this. Your a business
man. Spread sheet out the Testarossa-even after a major service
consider worst cases, you'll have to do research on a valve job-clutch
job, etc etc including labor which I believe include removing the motor
for spark plugs. Then spread sheet a 355 and a 360. You might find a
360 at 130 or 140 maybe worth it just because of the ease of maint.
I dont think a 360 requires motor removal and I dont know about the
355. the 355 can be had in the 90's or 80's I think. which would be
the same as a testarossa and a new belt service!!
If you buy testarossa for say $70K and then have to do $30k in
maint its still worth 70K!!
06-01-2004, 08:01 PM
#27
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Originally posted by OldGuy
Bo do us a favor. i dont care that you want a Ferrari that does
not bother me, in fact I love your passion. But do this. Your a business
man. Spread sheet out the Testarossa-even after a major service
consider worst cases, you'll have to do research on a valve job-clutch
job, etc etc including labor which I believe include removing the motor
for spark plugs. Then spread sheet a 355 and a 360. You might find a
360 at 130 or 140 maybe worth it just because of the ease of maint.
I dont think a 360 requires motor removal and I dont know about the
355. the 355 can be had in the 90's or 80's I think. which would be
the same as a testarossa and a new belt service!!
If you buy testarossa for say $70K and then have to do $30k in
maint its still worth 70K!!
Bo do us a favor. i dont care that you want a Ferrari that does
not bother me, in fact I love your passion. But do this. Your a business
man. Spread sheet out the Testarossa-even after a major service
consider worst cases, you'll have to do research on a valve job-clutch
job, etc etc including labor which I believe include removing the motor
for spark plugs. Then spread sheet a 355 and a 360. You might find a
360 at 130 or 140 maybe worth it just because of the ease of maint.
I dont think a 360 requires motor removal and I dont know about the
355. the 355 can be had in the 90's or 80's I think. which would be
the same as a testarossa and a new belt service!!
If you buy testarossa for say $70K and then have to do $30k in
maint its still worth 70K!!
The thing that old guy forgets (or doesn't know) is that a Testarossa buyer is very different from a 355 or 360 buyer in that they are looking for a 12 cylinder Ferrari. If you are dying for a Testarossa, the 355 or 360 probably won't do anything for you. A friend of mine just had his major done on his Testarossa. The cost was $8,500 and included a new clutch. Ferrari backs their service work with a one year warranty....
PM me if you want to get more details on where to look for a Testarossa.
06-01-2004, 08:52 PM
#28
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Scott,
Are you sure that you're not a car salesman? Your posts resonate of salesman speak. You know, like "You look like a 12-cylinder man to me" and "PM me if you want a lead on the best maintained Testarossa in existence".
BTW, I like 12-cylinder Ferraris, and the "lesser" 8-cylinder ones "do" plenty for me, as well.
Are you sure that you're not a car salesman? Your posts resonate of salesman speak. You know, like "You look like a 12-cylinder man to me" and "PM me if you want a lead on the best maintained Testarossa in existence".
BTW, I like 12-cylinder Ferraris, and the "lesser" 8-cylinder ones "do" plenty for me, as well.
06-01-2004, 09:23 PM
#29
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Not only do I forget but I also dont know!!
I would love to have a ferrari and have fantasized about
all of the above, testarossa 355 and the 360. But I have
never got that close to talk to a salesman.
But youre right Anir if Scott knows the diff between a testa guy
and a 360 guy he has to be a salesman!
I would love to have a ferrari and have fantasized about
all of the above, testarossa 355 and the 360. But I have
never got that close to talk to a salesman.
But youre right Anir if Scott knows the diff between a testa guy
and a 360 guy he has to be a salesman!
06-01-2004, 09:49 PM
#30
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Look for the old bait and switch..."I'm fresh out of Testarossa's BUT, since you're looking for a red car, I've got a great 993TT for you!" Half the cylinders and only twice the price.