Estimated value of my 993tt
 

Well all this is a very hard post for me to write but the time may be here for me to let go of the favorite Porsche I've owned so far. With that being said I have no idea what to price it at and of'course I'd love nothing more than for it to go to a fellow Rennlister. I will initially list it in the members for sale forum first but until then I need to try and figure out what is a fair price. So I'm soliciting all you on what you think this excellent example of a driver would be. See I think it is the perfect example of a 993tt because its improved in multiple areas and it has only 7k miles on the engine and turbos which I had freshened up a few years ago. It's a absolute blast to drive and yet as docile as stock. I've owned the car 7 years now and have spared no expense on it since taking ownership. I would love nothing more than to find it a home to another Porsche enthusiast as myself.

Here's a high level of what it is.

1996 Slate Grey metallic w/blk interior 77K odometer miles

Body

• Front bumperette deletion
• Rear bumperette painted to match car

Engine

• Full Engine rebuild at 70K miles
• Protomotive 16/16g Turbos(only 7k miles on them)
• Protomotive ECU programing
• Electronic Boost Controller
• Painted Intercooler Shroud(red)
• Cargraphic Hi-Flow Oil-Cooler(mounts in factory location)

Exhaust

• 100 Cell Metallic Cat inserts(Carnewal) inside factory housing(only 5k miles on these)
• Fabspeed Muffler By-Pass installed(i have the factory original mufflers to be included with the car)

Transmission

• Lightweight Flywheel
• 997 GT3RS Pressure Plate
• FD Short Sifter with Golden Rod

Suspension

• KW v3 Coil-Overs - 8k miles on them
• Rear Engine Tilt Kit(Done at time of Engine Rebuild)

Interior

• 997 Gt3 Front Seats
• 996 Gt3 Steering Wheel
• Full Adjustable Rennline

Wheels & Tire

• 2 Set of Wheels & Tires. factory 993 hollow Spoke Turbo wheels along with factory 996 turbo hollow spoke wheels(currently on it)

So what's something like this worth today? It's not a show car but if someone it looking for an excellent driver which has been improved in terms of handling, cooling, power, sound etc then I can't think of a better 911 to own. If you live in SoCal and been to SuperCar Sundays in Woodland hills then you've probably seen it.


Thanks for your opinions and suggestions. Is $130K right?

Chadhttps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d8ad49e465.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...fe8f89adc3.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...319704689f.jpg

Price
 

That is a nice car
my turbo R is valued per insurance at 175
im not sure if that is helpful
I would think a purest would be put off by all your improvements
but it is a very sweet car
my guess is north of 100 but less than 140????
what do I know ?

I'd agree scosurf. It seems way too nice to be a $100k car(since you can't even find one for that) but no way do I think its worth +$140k and hey if the purest wants to put it back to stock they can...I have take off parts. except for the original turbos.

Chad, thanks for rejoining. Please post a price. Thanks!

It's a great car you have, but 993TT prices have softened from their peak. The higher you price it, the longer it may sit.

So the question for you is, is it more important for you to get your price, or more important for a quick transaction and not to have your car for sale for a long time and field tons of tire kickers?

I can tell you that for $130K you are facing competition from cars with more originality and fewer miles that have been sitting near those prices for a long time. Check out Cars.com, Autotrader etc. and you'll see.

Good luck, and as Mark said, post a price! :cheers:

Thanks goofball. I'm a bit confused on post a price comment. I put $130k just so there is a price there and heck if someone wants it for $130k then let's talk...but the car isn't formally for sale. I am however trying to understand based on people that also currently own these and other Porsche aficionados on this site would list it for sale for if it was theirs to sell today. I put all the details on what was done to it so that peers could get a good understanding of the things I've done to it these past 3 years. In terms of what's out there...In my quick scan I didn't see anything less than $125k(asking price) and the car closest to mine in terms of modifications the person is asking $175k.

In no way do I have illusions of grandeur of what this car is worth. I really just put this post up to see if it was yours what you would list it at. I haven't been following the market and thus why I'm asking for opinions/help.

The only thing that has "softened" was the continued rise of the prices. Good cars get what they're expecting. I would say a buck 30 is reasonable, (and shouldn't sit for long) if you find someone who is more bent on driving a great car, as opposed to ROI. Your car is not outta reach to make stock, and obviously I think everything you've done, has enhanced/bettered the car. This should go to someone that wants a 3TT forever.

I have a friend with a 24k mile 993TT he has a buyer at $170k. Not sure if it helps but with all air cooled cars it depends on miles and condition. Nice cars bring the big $$ the rest sit.

Thanks Guys...I'm not looking for big dollars. but don't want to under list it either. everyone's comments are appreciated. I just checked Car.com and the market doesn't seem very soft in terms of what people are asking...my god.

Beautiful car, but from what I have seen in the market, people do not value almost anything that takes the car away from stock. The engine rebuild is probably good, maintenance items that have been upgraded perhaps like shocks and springs might be neutral or positive for value, but non-stock wheels, seats, steering wheel, painted items, etc. don't add value, and probably reduce value if they cannot be costlessly reversed. You might find a buyer that wants the car just as you have it, but I think there is a lot broader market for cars that are as close to original as possible. I'd think about putting it back closer to stock and separately selling whatever upgrade parts you have.

All of that said, the prices people are talking about here seem reasonable. I'd just think the number would be higher if you the car was more original. Good luck with the potential sale.

p.s., I think that color is great and I'd pay a premium for it.

I agree the color combo is a premium

Hey Chad, sorry that you are selling. I don't really follow the price of these cars like most on here do, so I can't give you any advise on the price. You have a well set up car and I wouldn't change a thing to sell it. Not everyone wants a rock stock car, especially if the mods are done tastefully! Besides, every mod is reversible if someone wants to return it to stock. It seems that there used to be a time on here when all we talked about was modding our cars. That was fun and the forum was very active :thumbup:. Once the value of these cars increased, the general consensus is that the car should look like it came off the showroom floor. To each their own ;). Anyhow I think you've do a great job with setting up you car and wish you the best!

Awesome color combination...great looking car. Just posted my 993tt on the Marketplace which is lower mileage and all original - yet more money. I think your ask is fine.

Agreed I think your ask is fine too! Closer to $100K just seems like to good of a deal. Keep in mind some areas are now approaching winter season so your overall pool of buyers will be down too. You guys are lucky in Cali. :)

Assuming cosmetically your in good shape, plus your engine rebuild these few points go a long way IMO. The car sounds like it's literally turn key for the next buyer to enjoy. I guess another way to look at this, how much would a 77K mile TT go for with original clutch, original suspension, no rebuild, original turbos etc.

It's not like your car has a crazy body kit or wheels, aftermarket interior stuff etc. It's tastefully upgraded, good luck hopefully there can be a turn of events and you keep the car.

I'm currently in the market to buy. The number that popped in my head BEFORE looking at anyone else's guesses was $120k

Miles, condition, originality. Yours is a nice example but the mods hurt value. if you put it back to stock, or close, you might get 130. As is, I'd say 100-115k.

You have to understand that sometimes you're not dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed.

Thanks again all. Sounds like what my gut was telling me is what this group also believes in that of'course Stock equals highest re-sale $$$ (due to the amount of people who want to stuff these away and wipe em down with diapers each night) but the fact the engine has been rebuilt(including new (Rod Bolts, Bearings and Nuts does help it's value. I do have the factory wheels, shocks, mufflers etc so if someone wants much more stock it won't be hard. Note to self that I should probably put the stock wheels on for pictures since that is probably causing some stomachs to turn since it was water pumper turbo wheels on it. As far as putting stock shocks back on it I'd just about die if I had to go back to the understeering pig this thing was prior to dialing it in...but I guess purists may enjoy that and I should raise it to the Paris-Dakar ride height specs again...I mean after all it is a 4x4. Those of you who have switched from the stock shocks to Pss9's or 10's know what I'm talking about.

Ideally the car would go to someone who wants to drive it daily and love having a solid and sorted 21 year old car that can still keep up with the best of them. So it sounds like at 130ish range I put my have patience pants on and at closer to $100k someone would be getting the deal of a lifetime. Unfortunately around the $100k mark really won't work for me so looks like having some patience for the right buyer is my future. Thanks again everyone as always you've been a great help....and yes I miss the days when the board was filled with "modification threads" and what have you done to your 993 lately and track threads etc. But hey even I took mine off the track 2 years ago because of the rapid valuation climb. btw it does 1:33's at Big Willow on radials...yes radials not R-compounds.

Take care everyone as your knowledge has yet again proven priceless. love this board.

Chad

Great color. Bring a Trailer? I lurk there but don't know what it would cost you (never registered). You can set the reserve at any price you like. Some high dollar cars seem to sell there.
Good luck.

Start at a buck 40, and stop at 130. Both of you will feel like you did well. That's not outta the realm of reasonableness. Just wait for the knowledgeable one, who wants your car! IF, you must, GLWS.
Aloha :-)

Thanks Keadog. I've never sold or bought through Bring-a-trailer but I am aware of the website. great idea.

Sweet Turbo. I think a $129k ask will get some interest. I wouldn't sell your car for less than $115k. It looks sorted and a documented rebuild is a real piece of mind for the next buyer. Put on the original rims maybe will help, but I personally like the 996tt rims on the 993tt. GLWS.

Good thread, nice car, someone will read this and it will get stuck in their head and they will buy it lol
glws

Another decent place to get pricing info can be eBay. Not perfect, but it does get a national reach with lots of eyeballs.

Here's the latest listing I have of a 993TT that ended yesterday. It's not an apples to apples comp as this car only has 26K miles, but you can follow listings that have ended and note where the bidding price ends to help you gauge where 993TT pricing is at the moment.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Porsch...p2047675.l2557

Good luck :cheers:

Thanks All! More great info and help...as always. Bloose, I will put it on the 993tt wheels for picture day but the tires on the 996tt rims are soo much better so I probably won't leave the 3tt wheels on it long. But I agree that from a selling standpoint the original wheels will serve me better. But this car is a driver and I try to drive it a minimum of once a week if not more.

The engine having been apart is likely not be a positive thing - I did not see any comments on why it was rebuilt? They typically last more than 70K so was there an issue?

Pricing is surely all over the place. I've spoken to a number of Porsche shops including reputable dealers who know the market and the word I'm getting is that the market on 993TT and 964T's are softening up, more so than many expected. It remains location dependent with California typically fetching the highest numbers, and of course, in the winter months in the Northeast, the lowest. One guy I spoke to has 2 cars on consignment, both '96's, and has claimed interest has wained in the cars, he's advised both sellers to lower prices, but they continue to believe the cars are worth astronomical amounts. These are mid 50's mileage cars, one slightly modified, the other bone stock. Like anything, it will take some time for reality to set in with some sellers.

Will people pay the moon and the stars for clean, low-mileage (sub 20k) cars? Of course - but they are rare and not what most of the market is looking for.

The car I linked to below, a '96 with 47k miles, recently sold (as in within the past few weeks) for less than $110k from a private seller who advertised the car for a friend on another Porsche forum. And the ad sat for a bit, being reduced a few times before it sold. When I finally saw the ad it had a deposit already. The ad has been updated on the other site so the price is now gone, as the dealer/flipper didn't want people knowing what he paid for it. If anyone wants the links to the original ad PM me.

The dealer/flipper is now asking $20k + more.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Porsche-911-Carrera-Turbo/322916281932?epid=73988170&hash=item4b2f4f6e4c:g:n84AAOSwfVhaIZ-s&vxp=mtr

No issue. I was upgrading the turbos, ECU and had the money. The motor had 72k miles on it and I was told that in 993s the exhaust valve guides wear out of spec as early as 30-40k miles. So when I bought the car I knew at minimum a top-end rebuild was in itsfuture and I budgeted for it. I believe the turbo engines can go longer but by 70k I'm pretty sure everyone of these engines is out of spec and for me because I had the funds to do it and I was increasing the HP by 100 I wanted the peace of mind of good valve guides, new bearings, rod bolts& nuts etc. We put RS 3.8 cams in it(Same cam used in the Andial 3.8 motors) had everything checked out and then re-assembled. It's an absolute joy of a motor combo and drives better than stock IMO. Passes CA Smog sniffer perfectly and it's numbers are almost as good as our 997. Honestly, I couldn't be happier with the combo. I think a few others have had a similar set-up and also loved it.

Chad

Shame all this originality departure has to be a negative. I like ALL his mods. Hate front bumperettes (unless car is black) etc....

question:

-Do we really have to put stock US shocks/springs back on these when needed for the 4x4 look? Are PSS10's regarded as acceptable in the collectible world?
i cant believe i'm still riding on my original shocks/they have to be shot so do we think i can put Bilsteins on w/o a scowl?.........cant they be jacked up to suv height anyway? ;)

My opinion is that if it can be returned to original with no evidence that it was ever altered, then there should be no value impact. If you take off a set of wheels and then put them back on, that does not impact value. If you take off springs and them put them back on, no impact. If you replace a maintenance item with OEM, no real impact. If you have access to the original shocks and springs, either because you keep them or they are still available from Porsche, you shouldn't have a problem. Selling the car with the non-stock springs should degrade value by at most the cost of getting the original springs back on the car.

In my case, I replaced the suspension on my car, but kept the original parts and will put it back on if I ever sell. I hate the SUV look and handling, but also agree that the value is lower unless I put the stock suspension back on:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b4c5f23872.jpg

No doubt you will sell yours when I sell mine ;)

Bradford I agree with your points, it's kinda artificial. Certain name brand 'upgrades' - ruf/andial seem to command a premium. I guess there's some history behind those names. It's the same though with 'options' in a used car market, rarely do expensive 'options' add significant value to used cars. Never made sense to me. Having said that, I did buy a stock/original Ferrari 328, stock 928 and stock nsx too... You know that preowned Aston Martin poster with the hot women and caption about being 'used but do you really care?' I guess we do when we want to make it our own - and stock seem less used. :icon501:

I think the point a lot of people here miss is that the value of these cars is not driven by the enthusiast community - it's driven by the investors, the collectors, and the non-Porschephile. They are the ones who drove the prices to sky high levels over the past few years. These groups want stock, unmolested cars. If the market was driven by enthusiasts, I argue these cars would not be valued north of $100k. In my opinion good ones would hover around the $70-$80k mark, like NSX's and 355's.

In terms of why a RUF is worth more than a car that may be simply modified by a Porsche speed shop or a guy wrenching in his yard, among lots of other things, RUF cars carry a very unique provenance- in fact, real RUF cars are VIN'd directly through RUF . Google Porsche RUF and see what went into these cars (and still does).

I like to think of mine as one that performs just as good or better than a RUF and I didn't have to pay the $$$ to enjoy that feeling. Hope the next owner of it feels the same way. I really like RUF's btw the same way I love Ferrari's and all types of cars I can't afford. What I love even more is making the cars I do own perform like the higher dollar ones. I agree that it wasn't the enthusiasts the drove up the price of the Oil-Cooled 911's.

Yes it seems that the only factory option on our cars that adds value are sport seats
Let me first say that I am a big fan of the Ruf product https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif. I am not talking about the Ruf VIN cars.I am talking about the Turbo R, where anyone can take their 993TT to the RUF auto center and have them modify the engine to the 500HP range with cams, turbos, re-programmed ECU etc. These engines are built by a representative of Ruf. Other than the ECU programming and possibly the turbos, are there any other parts they use that are proprietary to Ruf? What do you do if you have a problem with your Ruf engine and you need to have it serviced by one of their representatives? Are there any Ruf shops in the US?

Whereas, Slate993TT gets his engine done by a local Porsche trained master mechanic that he can take to for service at any time.

I think there is this perception that if Ruf (I think this only holds true for the 993TT) doesn't build your engine, then it must be substandard. Otherwise, the value of a quality built engine by a local Porsche trained master mechanic should be worth that of a Ruf built engine??? We are not talking about the Yellowbird where Ruf blew people away with their performance or their 911 years ago. We are talking about a very well thought out mid range powered engine package that Ruf builds but is easily duplicated by others for the 993TT.

This is not in any way a slam on Ruf. I just want to open a dialogue to see what others think.

Good luck with the sale - I think you priced it realistically but I guess we shall see. I was considering this car when Bert had it for sale but really wanted arena red.

You may want to mention the interior color change in your ad though - which was a good move IMO.

Remember this car in DC FS originally. Good move on the black interior change. It was what held me back at that time. GLWTS.

Link? I found your 997 Cab S ad but not the 993TT.

Done and thank for you agreeing it was a good move. Every person I have spoken to interested in the car I walk them through the Interior change and what I had done. The Classic Grey just wasn't for me. I had the work professionally done about 5 years ago and have loved it ever since. It wasn't cheap but in the end worth every penny!

it's not listed in the vehicle marketplace and that's why you aren't seeing it. I have it listed in the Member to Member ads section but only paying Rennlist members can see that as I didn't want to be inundated with solicitations of specialty dealers etc. My first choice is to have it go to a Rennlister. So far it seemed like a good move as the car is in a Sales Pending status after 1 day of that ad being posted. It also has 2 back-up offers as of today.

If you can't go into that section just PM me with your questions and I'll be happy to help you. I listed it for $120k.

Oh and thank you both for passing on it so I could enjoy it!!! This has been such a joy to own and I have a feeling the next owner is going to love it as much as I did. I know there will be many days that I regret no longer it owning it but the memories will always be with me. Also if all goes right I may be able to continue to virtually see updates on the car via Rennlist. :-)