Analog Theory

According to this month's 911 & Porsche World magazine......

- "Porsche has all but confirmed what the rumor mill has been suggestion for some time - that next year will see the unveiling of both the second generation Boxster and the next 911, the latter machine probably with the internal designation 997.

At this year’s Goodwood Festival of Speed, staged in August, Porsche’s head of styling, Harm Lagaay told 911 & Porsche World editor-at-large, Peter Morgan: ‘If you look back you will see there is always a certain life cycle to our cars. The Boxster has been on the road for seven years, and the 911 for six, so soon there will be a very strong second development.’ When asked if the models might be seen during the remaining month’s of 2003, he replied firmly ‘No, definitely not. This year the emphasis is on the Carrera GT, the 911 Turbo Cabriolet, and the Carrera 4S Cabriolet – but next year is a very different story!’

In fact, judging by past Porsche history, both the Boxster and the 911 are long overdue for replacement. The two previously 911s – the 993 and 964 – each remained in production for just four years.

With no major German motor show in 2004 – Frankfurt takes place every second year – Porsche’s options for show debuts are Geneva next March, and Paris in September 2004. Porsche would not wish to crowd both launches into one show, for fear of lessening the impact of each car.” -


Wow, that sure sets the bar for the 997 huh? That is of course if we could all agree that the 996 is in effect the “964” of the new millennium. Which would also make the 993 well.......another story. I'm up for some flames with my Friday morning coffee thank you very much......oh and the 997 please.

Pete in DC

I wonder if half the 964 bashers ever actually had one....

JSA993

Pete,
I had a 964. Should have kept my '87 Carrera, or just walked for a couple of years instead of buying the 964. Honestly, it was not that bad, but comparing to the '87 and my current 993, it was a big POS.

Jeff

jford

I really don't get the reason people are so down on the 964. Saw someone refer to the bumpers once as "railroad tie bumpers" don't even know what that means. The bumpers were the main reason I chose a 964 over the earlier incarnations. Yes, the 89-91's had some issues but they are overblown (only 12% of cars had the cylinder head issue, many fixed under warrenty). Now I have a 993 (which I love by the way) with the CEL issue. The 996 I can understand that car prompting more passionate opions. Much different styling (in and out), water cooled motor.

Bob D.

I think the 964 is second only to the 914 as the most underappreciated Porsche. IMHO the 964 was the perfect bridge between the more raw early cars with their useless climate controls, etc., and the extremely civilized 993. My '92 964 was beautiful, extremely well made and particularly involving when driven at speed. And, my 964 was completely trouble free, something I can not say about my twice-as-expensive 993.

Davies

Isn't it an ownership tradition to carp about "other" model Porsches??
It's part of the experience...Made all the morre humorous by the fact that most of our fellow motoring citizens can't tell the difference between a 25 year old 911 and a new one!! Heck, I still have trouble discerning some 996s from Boxsters...

FYI the other day some misguided sole on the 964 board said the 993 is starting to look dated.

Analog Theory

I just hope (based on Harm's comments), that the 'strong' secondary development of the 996 (997) will have Porsche resolve the unacceptable problem of failed RMS.

It's ridiculous for them to expect (and us buyers to accept) that it's ok for your $70-$170K brand new car to have that kind of failure, and in some cases more than once.

The RMS failed on my 1999 twice (which toasted the clutch as well), and then within one month of taking delivery of my 2001....same thing. I see even with the updated 2002 and newer versions, the RMS failure is still a problem.

There is no worse feeing than backing out of the garage one day only to expose a puddle of Mobil 1 on the floor.

Porsche's whole marketing philosophy is that they provide the engineering, you provide the luxury options (at a premium I might add). Hence, the questionable quality and overall interior look/feel of the newer models.

People talk about the 964 (only 12% had cylinder leakage)......and the ridiculous 993 CEL issue (I thought I wanted one...now I'm not sure).....$5-$7K to fix....are you kidding me?

PAG is the most profitable car company in the world, and even with the downturn in the economy pulled in another record year. Am I the only one who says that given their attitude (we're in the business of making profits...), they HAD BETTER solve the mftg.quality issues this time 'round

Randy M

I am looking forward to seeing the new model. Short of the GT3, the 996's dont do much for me. the exterior is okay at best though its mostly the interior that, imo, is poorly done. I'm hoping that they do something similar to the 993 interior. If they could work with the 993 interior as a starting point and update it without ruining the cockpit layout of the classic 911 gauges that would be preferable to me. They could do something with the center console as well. The 996 guys make fun of our framed door windows and pillars but I actually like this. It makes for a much more solid door. Depending on what they do it 'could' be my next car. Till then I am really enjoying the one I have.

914und993

The 993 CEL issue is truly not $5k to $7k to fix, unless you are asking a dealership. This is being addressed by more than one independent shop for less than $1k. My own mechanic has his method that he charges around $500 for, and he insists that it works - fortunately I haven't had to avail myself of it.

There probably are instances where the real problem is premature valve guide wear which would dictate an expensive top end job, but I'm not convinced that represents a majority of the 993 CEL problems.

Still, looking forward to what the 997 will be!

Chip

DC from Cape Cod

Even if the complete fix is $5K, isn't a substantial portion of that cost going to fix something that actually needs fixing? I understand the CEL comes on due to blockage of the secondaries but isn't the valve guide wear part of the problem?

I am working on the premise that this is a two-fold issue. The secondaries clog and cause the CEL but there is also valve guide wear that is something you would ultimately have to fix anyway.

This substantially lowers the (in my mind) cost fo the CEL.

Davies

Can somebody actually explain what valve-guide wear and carbon build-up
have to do with each other?? I still can't grasp the concept of doing a valve
job on a motor that doesn't show the traditional signs of valve wear (increased oil consumption, valve noise, smoking etc...) just because its secondary air injectors
need cleaning out.

Am I missing something?

Ruairidh

"Honestly, it was not that bad"

"but comparing to the '87 and my current 964, it was a big POS".

I'm not sure (a) I have any comprehension how you fit such mutually exclusive statements into one sentence and (b) I have yet come across any 911 of any vintage that I would term a POS.

...........and I'm driving a 964 because - ever the contrarian - it remains my favorite 911 (followed closely by the 993).

914und993

It is believed by some that the carbon problem comes from valve guide wear (and engine oil that works its way down the guide to carbonize in the exhaust port), and it may well be that if the valve guides did not wear, the problem would not occur.

But, apart from the CEL (secondary air injection port) issue, is the wear enough to be a problem for the engine? Are 993 valve guides actually wearing faster then 964 or Carrera 3.2 engine valve guides, or has it simply not been an issue in earlier engines because there was nothing to cause one to notice until wear was much further along?

I don't know the answer to that. I'm sure many have opinions, but I'm not sure convincing evidence either way has been presented.

Sorry for the thread hijack, thats all I'll say here!

Chip

Davies

Thank you, Chip. That makes a lot of sense.
In all of the reading I've done on the subject,
nobody explained the link very well.
(& I too apologize for the thread hijacking).

Analog Theory

Unless I'm mistaken, the CEL issue is still a hot topic with many supossed work arounds (just take the bulb out), tape over the bulb, reset (daily in some cases) the ODB II with aftermarket tool, pay huge $$ for a major engine service that may OR may not be required, one other fix that was akin to shoving a coat hanger through the hole......install Euro ECU?

All of this is acceptable to those that paid (whatever they paid) for thier 993? With strict emmissions testing where I live and the risk of a huge service bill, I would be very wary about the issue and would be more focussed on an "offical position" from Porsche.

I've read so many different views on this, can someone please confirm what PAG's "official" stance is?

Thanks in advance.