red67vert

'95 C2
New M033? Koni FSD
Elephant Bushings/Bump steer Tie Rods/ Ball Joints.
18" HS TT's Mich PS2's

Aggressive street, Tracked once or twice a year.

I have looked for an INDY to no avail, so I'm going to local Porsche dealer.

Yes, they have the tool.
Gas tank? 1/2, or full?
Specs? Do I say anything, or let him do his thing?
Four corner? Sand bags?

I have searched, everyone has such different opinions, and recommendations.
Just don't want to get it done, and be sorry I forgot something,
or shoulda done this or shoulda done that!
Quote was like $400.

Thank You!!!




/

911F1

What city are you in?

Martin S.

No need for sand bags for corner weighting, I don't believe the KONI FSDs have adjustable spring perches. Your ride height may be what it is. But maybe not...you'll know.

You may want to consider the 993 RS alignment specs. They are not that radical IMHO. The specifics that follow are taken from Porsche Service Bulletin WKD 499 620 04/95: See enclosed:

I ran for about a year on these 993 RS specs...incredible performance. But that was then and this is now. Recently I went all out on camber, etc.,. Definitely better turn in at high speed, 100 mph+. When you turn the wheel you know the car will respond. But for the street, the street my car seldom sees, this alignment would not be appropriate.

IMHO, the RS alignment is a good compromise.

red67vert

I'm in Warren, Michigan
Thanks for the info thus far ����
Yes, fronts are adjustable, rears are not.
Definitely sits lower than stock with the M033 springs.
Probably ROW height now.
I know it looks good and I'm happy with the height.

OverBoosted28

Find what specs you want to end up with, and make sure the tech knows what ya want. They will try and stay within factory specs, which is not always the best handling.

RonCT

Here's my M033 / FSD alignment spec from a very well regarded indy here in CT (AAOC). I retired from track / instructing so asked for moderate to aggressive street alignment.

Fuel Full
Slope 1 degree

Weight less driver 3095
586 / 600
952 / 958

Front
1mm in / 1mm in Toe
-0.7 / -0.7 Camber
+5.1 / +5.3 Caster

Rear
1.5 in / 1.5 in Toe
-1.4 / -1.4 Camber

Martin S.

Glad to hear the fronts are adjustable for ride height, had no idea the FSDs and M033 springs provided such a dramatic change from stock. I have a buddy with this set up on his 993 street focused car and it looks great. He stayed with the stock anti-roll bars.

That 1 degree of slope, as suggested, will be a nice addition. One of these days, consider adding 993 RS anti-roll bars (sway bars), 23mm front 20 mm rear. In contrast to the stock 20mm front and 17 mm rear I believe. For less $$$, the M030 RoW bars are 22mm front, and some use the 993 Turbo 21mm rear bar, well, at least I did and the results were rewarding. I went to the Tarrett adjustable drop links...why? I just liked the idea that they were length adjustable and you could dial out any suspension pre-load. Have I ever adjusted them? No.

I also used the M030 RoW springs, which have very similar compression rates as stock***: 150 Lbs/inch front and 300 Lbs per inch rear. They are just shorter than stock springs for the lowering effect...but not to RS ride height. So here's my point: If M030 spring rates and stock spring rates are nearly identical, it follows that the M030 anti-roll bars will work on your car. They sure worked on mine.

In a perfect world, you'd have a set of Hoosier R7 tires mounted on 18" wheels, 245/35/18 front and 285/30/18 rear. Your head will spin after your first session. The stick is phenomenal. Your wallet may spin a bit as well, about $1,500 a set, and you can't drive to the track on them. They are too soft for the street even though they have a DOT rating (40), or compromise with a set of Nitto NT-01 (DOT 100) tires. They are 33% cheaper than the Hoosiers and you theoretically can drive to the track on them. I used to drive to the track with Toyo RA-1 (DOT 100) tires, never a problem. But that rubber is too precious to waste on a common street. You may not believe this, but Walmart has been know to carry NT-01 tires, at least my local one does (Paso Robles, CA).

***Just to be certain, I personally put the stock and M030 RoW springs, a front and a rear into a spring compressor...yup, they are at 150 front and 300 rear. And BTW, the somewhat limited in scope spring rate chart pdf was not developed by me. It came from the internet ether, Rennlist?

Tlaloc75

I really like the RS alignment settings, but I'd go with a little more camber. I had the (opportunity?) recently to try a wide variety of alignment settings on my car back-to-back-to-back ranging from stock to RS to slightly more than RS. I ended up liking the RS+ alignment best. I started with RS and then bumped the rear camber up slightly so that I was 1.2 in front and 1.7 in back. 1.2 front and back was very good too and did tend toward a little less understeer.

I also tried maxing out caster in front vs. spec and I like spec better. Max caster feels a little too 'heavy' to me, kind of unnatural.

For rear KT I tried a variety of settings and ended up liking 3.5 units on the motorsports scale. Rear feels confident and takes a set quickly enough for my street use.

For ride height I tried a variety of settings from just above RS to just below RoW Sport and for street use I prefer a height closer to RoW Sport. No need for RS wheel carriers and the ride is a little better, without losing much performance on the street. I ended up right around 140 front and 130 rear which gave me a delta-from-stock of 7mm biased toward the front - so I get a little bit of rake as a result.

I corner balanced (a few times) with driver's weight in the front seat, but didn't try it without so I don't know how much of a difference this makes.

Fuel was full for all my alignments and measurements, as per Porsche spec.

I can also vouch for the M030 sways, I really like mine. Though I'd want stiffer for track work, they seem spot-on for street use. I did not go with adjustable drop links, as I have no pre-load to speak of so they seem unnecessary.

Tlaloc75

Here are the notes I used with my mechanic, if you want to see it all summed up in one place.

Ride Height Notes:
- Ride height should be set to RoW M030. I prefer a slight downward rake, so the front should be 140mm and the rear 130 which is a delta of 7mm from spec front/rear. Do not go much lower in front without bumpsteer correction in place. Do not exceed 10mm delta front/rear.

Alignment Notes:
- Align with full tank
- Front should be 1/32" toed in (should never be toed out). Even on both sides.
- Rear should be 1/16" toed in to have slight more toe than in front. Even on both sides.
- 1.2 camber in front and -1.7 in back. Even on both sides.
- Front caster to spec @5.2 with minimal cross caster within spec to correct for road crown.
- Kinetic toe should be 3-4 on the motorsports gauge, even on both sides.

For Kinetic Toe Measurement:
- A handy visual is where in the wheel well the tire sits, 0 caster is forward and 8 is back towards the muffler, you want the tire as far forward as is comfortable for you to drive.
- The higher the units on the gauge the further back the wheel and you get more rear steering effects which reacts slower and adds stability. Lowering the units on the gauge results in reduced caster and less rear steering which reduces stability, reacts faster and feels twitchier.

red67vert

This is great stuff guys! THANK YOU!
When(if) I add the bigger sway bars, it won't affect alignment will it?
I have been looking for some M030's, or Turbo's.

Tlaloc75

You can replace sways without effecting alignment. Rear is easy to do yourself. Front is a little more involved, but still not too bad.

red67vert

Question, where exactly are you measuring, to get 140mm, and 130mm? I'm used to measuring from floor to middle of wheel arch, for height. Thanks. What a newbie uh!

PS, WTB M030 bars. Lol

Tlaloc75

Use this information:


I'd like to acknowledge that my advice is the result of standing on the shoulders of giants such as Bill Verburg, Steve Weiner and Trophy. If you search the archives and find posts from these guys (and many others I'm forgetting to mention) you'll gain a great deal of knowledge.

nine9six

Really? I offered you a M030 rear bar and you said you really wanted the fronts.

red67vert

Nine9six, PM sent.