Need help with buying a 993! (Long post)
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From: Baltimore, MD
Need help with buying a 993! (Long post)
Hello, Rennlisters,
I need some expereinced voices to help me here. I’ve been looking for a low mileage 1996 993 and I’ve found one that I like but I have some questions and concerns that I want to bounce off of some more experienced owners.
The car in question is a 1996 black coupe with a tan interior. It has 38,000 miles and the owner is asking $40,000 for it. It’s in really good shape but not in the “perfect” condition that the owner, and so many other sellers, claim it is in. The biggest flaw for me are a rash of tiny paint chips by the forward part of the front fenders near the stone guards and by the rocker panels where the fender starts to flare. Also, there are some more paint chips, again on the rocker panels, under the leading edge of the doors. The chips give the black car a “dirty” appearance and sullies a nearly perfect car. It appears that the chips on the rocker panels have to be repainted in order for them to disappear. However, on the body, many of the chips seem to be on the stone guard which I understand can be removed and replaced with some effort.
I haven’t done a PPI or body shop check but from what I can see there are no oil leaks, no crash damage, no bodywork. There is a small pressure dent on the passenger’s door and a touched up nick in the driver’s door. One of the felt seals to the sunroof is coming loose. I guess it can be reglued.
The interior is nearly flawless with some minor wear on the driver’s seat. The owner says that the defroster connection keeps on coming adrift and prevents the back window from defrosting. Also, strangely, the wires for the mirrors seem to be wired backwards. Moving the rocker to the left engages the right mirror while the mirror orientation controls are completely reversed. The owner, a dentist, said he never noticed this before, an explanation which I find a bit perplexing. I mean, I’m sure this is not the first car with power mirrors he has had. If all of your other cars operated in a cetain way and then this car operated in the exact opposite way, wouldn’t you notice? I did. Hmmm. So, I have a bit of a concern that someone did some electrical work on it and maybe didn’t put it all back together properly.
The owner says he is the third owner but Carfax shows six title or registration recordings. How can this be? I bought a 1985 911 Carrera a few months back that had a similar situation. The owner was supposed to be the third owner but there were multiple registrations or titles. Am I just reading the Carfax incorrectly?
I should mention that the owner supposedly has a transferrable extended warranty that covers everything on the car until the next year. He bought the coverage at a dealership called HBL in Northern Virginia. I think the warranty is a national one that can move from dealership to dealership. So, there’s some peace of mind with the car.
I am trying to buy my dream car here and I intend to keep it forever. I wil also do a few DE events a year and I know how hard the track can be on cosmetic perfection. I really want a silver 993, black being my second choice, but this car is very attractive. Low miles for $40,000. It seems that the ‘96 993’s with this low miles are going for around $45,000 and without any warranty. Of course, I haven’t seen any of these other $45,000 “perfect” cars.
What do you folks think? Am I a fool to not jump on this car? Am I making too much of the stone chip issue with my dream car? Should I hold out for a silver 993 with under 40,000 miles, for maybe under $40,000 and without a warranty? Or is this a deal that is unlikely to come up again?
Finally, do all of the darker colored 993’s have this stone chip issue or did I simply find an example that was driven on a gravel road? I have only driven a white one and a silver one before. If this problem is common to the darker cars, I’m liking the silver ones even more.
Thanks for taking the time to read this long post!
I need some expereinced voices to help me here. I’ve been looking for a low mileage 1996 993 and I’ve found one that I like but I have some questions and concerns that I want to bounce off of some more experienced owners.
The car in question is a 1996 black coupe with a tan interior. It has 38,000 miles and the owner is asking $40,000 for it. It’s in really good shape but not in the “perfect” condition that the owner, and so many other sellers, claim it is in. The biggest flaw for me are a rash of tiny paint chips by the forward part of the front fenders near the stone guards and by the rocker panels where the fender starts to flare. Also, there are some more paint chips, again on the rocker panels, under the leading edge of the doors. The chips give the black car a “dirty” appearance and sullies a nearly perfect car. It appears that the chips on the rocker panels have to be repainted in order for them to disappear. However, on the body, many of the chips seem to be on the stone guard which I understand can be removed and replaced with some effort.
I haven’t done a PPI or body shop check but from what I can see there are no oil leaks, no crash damage, no bodywork. There is a small pressure dent on the passenger’s door and a touched up nick in the driver’s door. One of the felt seals to the sunroof is coming loose. I guess it can be reglued.
The interior is nearly flawless with some minor wear on the driver’s seat. The owner says that the defroster connection keeps on coming adrift and prevents the back window from defrosting. Also, strangely, the wires for the mirrors seem to be wired backwards. Moving the rocker to the left engages the right mirror while the mirror orientation controls are completely reversed. The owner, a dentist, said he never noticed this before, an explanation which I find a bit perplexing. I mean, I’m sure this is not the first car with power mirrors he has had. If all of your other cars operated in a cetain way and then this car operated in the exact opposite way, wouldn’t you notice? I did. Hmmm. So, I have a bit of a concern that someone did some electrical work on it and maybe didn’t put it all back together properly.
The owner says he is the third owner but Carfax shows six title or registration recordings. How can this be? I bought a 1985 911 Carrera a few months back that had a similar situation. The owner was supposed to be the third owner but there were multiple registrations or titles. Am I just reading the Carfax incorrectly?
I should mention that the owner supposedly has a transferrable extended warranty that covers everything on the car until the next year. He bought the coverage at a dealership called HBL in Northern Virginia. I think the warranty is a national one that can move from dealership to dealership. So, there’s some peace of mind with the car.
I am trying to buy my dream car here and I intend to keep it forever. I wil also do a few DE events a year and I know how hard the track can be on cosmetic perfection. I really want a silver 993, black being my second choice, but this car is very attractive. Low miles for $40,000. It seems that the ‘96 993’s with this low miles are going for around $45,000 and without any warranty. Of course, I haven’t seen any of these other $45,000 “perfect” cars.
What do you folks think? Am I a fool to not jump on this car? Am I making too much of the stone chip issue with my dream car? Should I hold out for a silver 993 with under 40,000 miles, for maybe under $40,000 and without a warranty? Or is this a deal that is unlikely to come up again?
Finally, do all of the darker colored 993’s have this stone chip issue or did I simply find an example that was driven on a gravel road? I have only driven a white one and a silver one before. If this problem is common to the darker cars, I’m liking the silver ones even more.
Thanks for taking the time to read this long post!
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From: Irvine, CA
Mark,
Move on. Get what you really want (silver) since it's your dream car and if you gonna keep it for a long long time. There are many fine examples out there, just matter of time and chance if you come across it.
Have you consider MY '95? Their prices seem to be quite attractive if you can live w/o VarioRam.
Good luck on your search.
PK
Move on. Get what you really want (silver) since it's your dream car and if you gonna keep it for a long long time. There are many fine examples out there, just matter of time and chance if you come across it.
Have you consider MY '95? Their prices seem to be quite attractive if you can live w/o VarioRam.
Good luck on your search.
PK
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From: Boston
Porsche paint is soft, you will find chips on any 993 that has been driven for any length of time, unless it was protected by a bra. The primer is white, so they are most noticeable on a black or dark car. this will be a constant issue for you on a dark car; it's less noticeable on white or silver.
A Carfax can show multiple records for one owner; for example, in Florida, the Carfax will show an entry every time the car is emission tested. Some states may report every time the registration is renewed.
If you like the car, buy it ... dont' worry about the money if you're going to keep it forever anyway, and it's almost always better to pay a little bit more for a car you really like than hold out and settle for something less, even if you save a little money. But if silver is what you really want, you should get a silver car. Me, I like black on tan. I bought red on tan because it was the right car at the time, and I love it anyway. And it shows every chip, too.
VIc
95 C4
A Carfax can show multiple records for one owner; for example, in Florida, the Carfax will show an entry every time the car is emission tested. Some states may report every time the registration is renewed.
If you like the car, buy it ... dont' worry about the money if you're going to keep it forever anyway, and it's almost always better to pay a little bit more for a car you really like than hold out and settle for something less, even if you save a little money. But if silver is what you really want, you should get a silver car. Me, I like black on tan. I bought red on tan because it was the right car at the time, and I love it anyway. And it shows every chip, too.
VIc
95 C4
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Lake Tahoe, CA
I agree with the above poster who said "pass" and wait for a silver one if that is the color you want. $40K for this one doesn't strike me as an outrageous bargain (note you don't mention any options that this car has....that can make a big difference). I bought mine over a year ago for $44K, and mine had 27k miles. At the time I thought I had overpaid by $2-3K, but I wanted it because it was the color combo (in and out) that I wanted, and it had some options I wanted. Now, a year later, I could care less what I paid. I have the car I want to keep till you need to wheel me to the car.
No reason to settle for second choice in this market. Have fun with your search! <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
No reason to settle for second choice in this market. Have fun with your search! <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,509
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if you have doubts about a car you should walk, especially in this market where there are many nice cars for sale.
...and whenever you come across a "bargain" you have to ask yourself why...are you a great negotiator? is the owner urgent to sell? is the owner ignorant of market value? or something else?
good luck on your search.
...and whenever you come across a "bargain" you have to ask yourself why...are you a great negotiator? is the owner urgent to sell? is the owner ignorant of market value? or something else?
good luck on your search.
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From: Baltimore, MD
Hey, everyone,
Thanks for all of your responses! They're helping me with my decision over here. My gut says to go with a silver car; the look really turns me on and the lightness of the color might be more durable against paint chips and other surface imperfections than a darker car.
If anyone else wants to reply, I welcome all feedback.
Thanks for all of your responses! They're helping me with my decision over here. My gut says to go with a silver car; the look really turns me on and the lightness of the color might be more durable against paint chips and other surface imperfections than a darker car.
If anyone else wants to reply, I welcome all feedback.
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From: Washington, DC
If you end up seriously considering the car you've mentioned, confirm the warranty transfer WITH HBL, and in writing. They are a certified dealer, but you become an immediate stranger after leaving the lot and their service is so-so ("Wait: I sold you an extended warranty yesterday?") Look on <a href="http://www.pcapotomac.org" target="_blank">www.pcapotomac.org</a> for some other opinions on the place...
Racer
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 251
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From: Tampa, Florida
Patience Skywalker. The one you really want is out there. Black always looks dirty and shows the paint imperfections FAR more than other colors. But it looks great on washing day. Not a good combo for daily driver (I have black on black 95.) I often wish I had waited more patiently -- as hard as it is.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 358
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From: Hilton Head Isl, SC
[quote]Originally posted by Kevin Reilly:
<strong>Now, a year later, I could care less what I paid. I have the car I want to keep till you need to wheel me to the car. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Kevin makes a good point.
With time what is paid for the car isn't that relevant.
"So I paid 1k,2k,3k,4k too much; by the way what was it I paid for that car?
It doesn't matter, I got the car I wanted."
No, regrets. Happy hunting.
<strong>Now, a year later, I could care less what I paid. I have the car I want to keep till you need to wheel me to the car. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Kevin makes a good point.
With time what is paid for the car isn't that relevant.
"So I paid 1k,2k,3k,4k too much; by the way what was it I paid for that car?
It doesn't matter, I got the car I wanted."
No, regrets. Happy hunting.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 194
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From: Boston
<a href="http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/ida/index_view.jtmpl?dealership_view_name=carson18&car_id=97651871&dealer_id =77078" target="_blank">http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/ida/index_view.jtmpl?dealership_view_name=carson18&car_id=97651871&dealer_id =77078</a>
This 993 is listed on Autotrader, it was the first 993 under $30K I have found in my search.
It may be too good to be true, does anyone know the car?
This 993 is listed on Autotrader, it was the first 993 under $30K I have found in my search.
It may be too good to be true, does anyone know the car?
Racer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 486
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From: Oregon
"The owner says that the defroster connection keeps on coming adrift and prevents the back window from defrosting."
Because of the crazy design employed by Porsche, fixing the defroster means replacing the rear windshield. For some teutonic reason, incomprehendable to meer mortals, Porsche made the wiring for the defroster integral to the windshield. Not a minor repair! The lesson to take away from this is when you do get the 993 you want, be very,very careful when you clean the inside of the rear window. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Because of the crazy design employed by Porsche, fixing the defroster means replacing the rear windshield. For some teutonic reason, incomprehendable to meer mortals, Porsche made the wiring for the defroster integral to the windshield. Not a minor repair! The lesson to take away from this is when you do get the 993 you want, be very,very careful when you clean the inside of the rear window. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Baltimore, MD
A4: Sorry, I haven't stumbled across your 993 in question and made any inquiries. I've seen a few other '95 993's for under $30,000, so , no, this is not uncommon.
Laurence: Wow! Thanks for the heads up on the defroster. On the surface the fix seems like it should be simple but...the problem seems to be recurring. There's a reason it hasn't been solved.
To everyone else: Again, thanks for the great feedback. It's great to hear everyone's opinions.
Laurence: Wow! Thanks for the heads up on the defroster. On the surface the fix seems like it should be simple but...the problem seems to be recurring. There's a reason it hasn't been solved.
To everyone else: Again, thanks for the great feedback. It's great to hear everyone's opinions.
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From: Brentwood, TN
Ha! HA HA HA!! (Ranting lunatic) <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
AAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
Finally, Finally, Finally! I have finally found a reason why it is better to own a cab! YES!!!
Please, no one burst my bubble of insane joy!! I have only had my car in the shop three times this year, and all three were for minor problems with the cabriolet top. But I don't have a rear defroster to break!! YEAH!!!
I knew there was light at the end of this tunnel. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Regardless, all 993's rule. I love my car beyond comprehension (but I do want a 993TT someday)
Robert
AAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
Finally, Finally, Finally! I have finally found a reason why it is better to own a cab! YES!!!
Please, no one burst my bubble of insane joy!! I have only had my car in the shop three times this year, and all three were for minor problems with the cabriolet top. But I don't have a rear defroster to break!! YEAH!!!
I knew there was light at the end of this tunnel. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Regardless, all 993's rule. I love my car beyond comprehension (but I do want a 993TT someday)
Robert