DME chip for 96-98 993
02-23-2002, 10:12 PM
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DME chip for 96-98 993
I am interested in getting a DME chip for my 96 993. Most places seem to carry only 95s. Some places where they have 96-98 chips appear to charge alot more for them than the 95s. I am currently using a Carrera Cup Airbox Lid with BMC air filter. I am planning to upgrade to a larger throttle body in the near future. But I don't plan on changing the muffler because I was told that none of the aftermarket mufflers actually improve performance on the 993 as they claimed. Please advise.
02-23-2002, 10:29 PM
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Try Gert Carnewal at gert@carnewal.com - he carries the 97/98 DMEs; the '96 are not available, as I understand it, and you wouldn't want one anyway. They're not reprogrammable.
02-23-2002, 11:34 PM
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Here's one on eBay
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1805571010&r=0&t=0" target="_blank">97 Porsche 993 vram varioram engine brain </a>
Jeff
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1805571010&r=0&t=0" target="_blank">97 Porsche 993 vram varioram engine brain </a>
Jeff
02-24-2002, 01:23 AM
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Hello,
You haven't found a "chip" for your 96's DME because there isn't such a thing. Starting with '96, the "chip" is integral to the ECU. So, instead of installing a chip, you must have performance software installed. That is, a talented programmer/tuner modifies the code in your ECU. And, thus, why the 96+ performance upgrade (software) for a 96+ model is so much more expensive than older models.
You haven't found a "chip" for your 96's DME because there isn't such a thing. Starting with '96, the "chip" is integral to the ECU. So, instead of installing a chip, you must have performance software installed. That is, a talented programmer/tuner modifies the code in your ECU. And, thus, why the 96+ performance upgrade (software) for a 96+ model is so much more expensive than older models.
02-24-2002, 10:33 PM
#5
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[quote]Originally posted by Randall G.:
<strong>Hello,
You haven't found a "chip" for your 96's DME because there isn't such a thing. Starting with '96, the "chip" is integral to the ECU. So, instead of installing a chip, you must have performance software installed. That is, a talented programmer/tuner modifies the code in your ECU. And, thus, why the 96+ performance upgrade (software) for a 96+ model is so much more expensive than older models.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A clarification might be needed for these '96-on' ECU's.
These do indeed have a chip inside there,.... LOL, its a PSOP device that is soldered in and epoxied in place unlike the earlier cars which used a 28 pin DIP device that resided in a socket.
Typically these EPROMS and are removed, reflashed, reinstalled and then tested.
The '96 ECU's are very different from the '97 and later ones as this one year used a proprietary Bosch 2-chip set that was replaced, not reflashed. Since these special chips are NLA, these ECU's have not been modifiable. A solution is in the works to aleviate this and enable these ECU's to be reprogrammed and other options for multiple chips with different programs will be available.
For now, all '96's need the later, 97-98 ECU to do any chip enhancement.
All '97-on 993's, and all 996's (cable & DBW) can be done by R&R'ing the EPROM and reprogramming it.
Robert,...I have new, USA-spec ECU's here on the shelf at all times.
Hope this helps,.......
<strong>Hello,
You haven't found a "chip" for your 96's DME because there isn't such a thing. Starting with '96, the "chip" is integral to the ECU. So, instead of installing a chip, you must have performance software installed. That is, a talented programmer/tuner modifies the code in your ECU. And, thus, why the 96+ performance upgrade (software) for a 96+ model is so much more expensive than older models.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A clarification might be needed for these '96-on' ECU's.
These do indeed have a chip inside there,.... LOL, its a PSOP device that is soldered in and epoxied in place unlike the earlier cars which used a 28 pin DIP device that resided in a socket.
Typically these EPROMS and are removed, reflashed, reinstalled and then tested.
The '96 ECU's are very different from the '97 and later ones as this one year used a proprietary Bosch 2-chip set that was replaced, not reflashed. Since these special chips are NLA, these ECU's have not been modifiable. A solution is in the works to aleviate this and enable these ECU's to be reprogrammed and other options for multiple chips with different programs will be available.
For now, all '96's need the later, 97-98 ECU to do any chip enhancement.
All '97-on 993's, and all 996's (cable & DBW) can be done by R&R'ing the EPROM and reprogramming it.
Robert,...I have new, USA-spec ECU's here on the shelf at all times.
Hope this helps,.......
02-26-2002, 04:06 PM
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Steve, Thanks for your information. I have a few other questions. Where can I get an ECU here in So Cal and what is the approximate price for it? Do you know any specialist who can help me with the installation? And can I really feel the difference in performance just by changing the chip alone?
02-27-2002, 04:16 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by kkcy993c4:
<strong>Steve, Thanks for your information. I have a few other questions. Where can I get an ECU here in So Cal and what is the approximate price for it? Do you know any specialist who can help me with the installation? And can I really feel the difference in performance just by changing the chip alone?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My pleasure,....happy to help anytime.
You can get a new ECU at your Porsche dealer. Retail price varies by dealer so you would need to check on that. We provide them for our clients for less than MSRP.
The ECU's cannot chipped at your dealer or shop as these are soldered-in EPROMS. You'll need to remove the driver's seat to gain access to the ECU and send that in to be "chipped".
I cannot speak for others who might be able to provide this service, but you would most definately notice the changes from having us reprogram the ECU!!!!
<strong>Steve, Thanks for your information. I have a few other questions. Where can I get an ECU here in So Cal and what is the approximate price for it? Do you know any specialist who can help me with the installation? And can I really feel the difference in performance just by changing the chip alone?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My pleasure,....happy to help anytime.
You can get a new ECU at your Porsche dealer. Retail price varies by dealer so you would need to check on that. We provide them for our clients for less than MSRP.
The ECU's cannot chipped at your dealer or shop as these are soldered-in EPROMS. You'll need to remove the driver's seat to gain access to the ECU and send that in to be "chipped".
I cannot speak for others who might be able to provide this service, but you would most definately notice the changes from having us reprogram the ECU!!!!
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02-27-2002, 03:11 PM
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My personal recommendation, based upon experience with both redoing my ECU and the Unichip, is go for the Unichip. I saw an increase at the rear wheels of 28h/p (I have other mods that were installed prior). It's expensive, but worth it!
02-27-2002, 03:56 PM
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My '97 engine ECU has <a href="http://www.net-quest.com/~knighton/" target="_blank">Protomotive's</a> performance software installed. Runs strong and flawlessly. However, since the software was added at the same time the drive-block was removed (i.e., before the engine was installed), I don't have a before/after reference.
Since you're in LA, it's possible you could drive the car to Winchester to have the software installed? Maybe they can pull your seat and swap the ECU while you wait?
Oh, and FWIW, the ECU software prices listed on Protomotive's website appear to be outdated--I didn't pay nearly that much 2 years ago. (Maybe Todd Knighton was just being nice, and threw in the performance software with the drive-block removal?)
Since you're in LA, it's possible you could drive the car to Winchester to have the software installed? Maybe they can pull your seat and swap the ECU while you wait?
Oh, and FWIW, the ECU software prices listed on Protomotive's website appear to be outdated--I didn't pay nearly that much 2 years ago. (Maybe Todd Knighton was just being nice, and threw in the performance software with the drive-block removal?)
02-28-2002, 08:00 PM
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Kim is right .... the '97 transplant would never have worked in my '91 without first removing the drive-block (or demobilizer). Todd K. of Protomotive added his performance software at the same time he was removing the drive-block.
Interesting thing is, post-transplant, I still have my original ignition cut-out (alarm) protection. I believe this system isn't quite the PITA the 993 system is.
Interesting thing is, post-transplant, I still have my original ignition cut-out (alarm) protection. I believe this system isn't quite the PITA the 993 system is.
03-01-2002, 04:50 PM
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Thanks, Silver Bullet. I hated the drive-block feature and I wish I can do something to get rid of this.
Randall, I have not heard of Protomotive until this conversation with you. After checking out their website/forum, it seems to me that they are quite knowledgeable. However, Protomotive claimed a 28 hp increase from ECU upgrade on the 96-98 993 vs. only 18 hp increase from Autothority. Techart is selling an upgrade kit consists of mufflers, throttle body, air box, and ECU with only a modest 20 hp increase. Do you think may be other companies are emission-legal and Protomotive is not? Or is this just an outrageous claim of 28 hp? Here is the link:
<a href="http://www.net-quest.com/~knighton/obd2na.html" target="_blank">http://www.net-quest.com/~knighton/obd2na.html</a>
Randall, I have not heard of Protomotive until this conversation with you. After checking out their website/forum, it seems to me that they are quite knowledgeable. However, Protomotive claimed a 28 hp increase from ECU upgrade on the 96-98 993 vs. only 18 hp increase from Autothority. Techart is selling an upgrade kit consists of mufflers, throttle body, air box, and ECU with only a modest 20 hp increase. Do you think may be other companies are emission-legal and Protomotive is not? Or is this just an outrageous claim of 28 hp? Here is the link:
<a href="http://www.net-quest.com/~knighton/obd2na.html" target="_blank">http://www.net-quest.com/~knighton/obd2na.html</a>
03-01-2002, 08:43 PM
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kkcy993c4:
May I offer some advice and an observation here?
Many folks offer many products with wide ranging claims for improvements. These should be taken in context and with some afterthought.
As an example, we very recently dyno'ed a client's '95 993. Several runs were made to establish a baseline before a final chip was mapped. The first run displayed 257 RWHP,....subsequent runs showed 253, and then stabilized at 245 as the heads heated up and some knock sensor activity was noted. These cars do not cool as well on a dyno as they do going down the road.
There is no question that if one used the results from the first dyno pass as the average or normal power increase, this printout would grant some bragging rights that would not be sustainable in reality. From a marketing perspective however, those figures could be used to enhance and substantiate power gains that are simply not repeatable nor fairly represent real-world results from such changes.
When someone makes claims that appear above the norm, Caveat Emptor is the rule,....
May I offer some advice and an observation here?
Many folks offer many products with wide ranging claims for improvements. These should be taken in context and with some afterthought.
As an example, we very recently dyno'ed a client's '95 993. Several runs were made to establish a baseline before a final chip was mapped. The first run displayed 257 RWHP,....subsequent runs showed 253, and then stabilized at 245 as the heads heated up and some knock sensor activity was noted. These cars do not cool as well on a dyno as they do going down the road.
There is no question that if one used the results from the first dyno pass as the average or normal power increase, this printout would grant some bragging rights that would not be sustainable in reality. From a marketing perspective however, those figures could be used to enhance and substantiate power gains that are simply not repeatable nor fairly represent real-world results from such changes.
When someone makes claims that appear above the norm, Caveat Emptor is the rule,....
03-01-2002, 08:55 PM
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Hey kky,
I'm not quite sure what to make of Protomotive's claim at the link you've posted. I guess they're not necessarily saying that every engine will net 28 hp, but the one they dynoed did?? For example, the link on the main page says "Software upgrades for 20 hp." Anyway, I think it would be overly optimistic to expect 28hp. Personally, I would be satisfied to net only half that (14 hp).
I imagine Protomotive's ECU software is smog-legal (of course, the guy doing the testing has no idea if you have a modified ECU, other than [possibly] what is coming out the tail-pipe). I know my car passed smog, albeit at the less restrictive '91 standard.
Did you notice how "funky" the English is on the link you posted? I'm pretty sure this page must have been authored by Protomotive's Japanese affiliate--it appears to be written by someone that speaks English as a second language. Couldn't have been written by Todd Knighton--he has an excellent command of the English language, besides being a "master-tuner."
I know I've written how well Protomotive's ECU works. On the other hand, I'm sure Steve Weiner (Rennsport) makes a great product, too. But, I thought you might be interested in a place in your own backyard, which would allow you to have the unit pulled, installed and QC'ed professionally.
I'm not quite sure what to make of Protomotive's claim at the link you've posted. I guess they're not necessarily saying that every engine will net 28 hp, but the one they dynoed did?? For example, the link on the main page says "Software upgrades for 20 hp." Anyway, I think it would be overly optimistic to expect 28hp. Personally, I would be satisfied to net only half that (14 hp).
I imagine Protomotive's ECU software is smog-legal (of course, the guy doing the testing has no idea if you have a modified ECU, other than [possibly] what is coming out the tail-pipe). I know my car passed smog, albeit at the less restrictive '91 standard.
Did you notice how "funky" the English is on the link you posted? I'm pretty sure this page must have been authored by Protomotive's Japanese affiliate--it appears to be written by someone that speaks English as a second language. Couldn't have been written by Todd Knighton--he has an excellent command of the English language, besides being a "master-tuner."
I know I've written how well Protomotive's ECU works. On the other hand, I'm sure Steve Weiner (Rennsport) makes a great product, too. But, I thought you might be interested in a place in your own backyard, which would allow you to have the unit pulled, installed and QC'ed professionally.
03-06-2002, 06:55 AM
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Steve, after reading numerous praises about you, I trust you must be an expert on Porsches. I just visited your website looking for the 96 DME. However, I found only 95 and 97-98. Would you be kind enough to provide me the pricing information on the 96? Once upgraded, is it still reprogrammable? Do you think a larger throttle body will help with only the DME upgrade? Please advise. My email: kkcy@earthlink.net
Thanks.
Randall, thanks for your feedback. I just got a quote from Protomotive. They tend to be quite expensive comparing to other tuners. Todd Knighton quoted me $1595 for the 96 while most other companies are in the $1250 range. Do you honestly think upgrading only the chip will bring a realistic 18-20 horses? Performance I can feel?
Thanks.
Randall, thanks for your feedback. I just got a quote from Protomotive. They tend to be quite expensive comparing to other tuners. Todd Knighton quoted me $1595 for the 96 while most other companies are in the $1250 range. Do you honestly think upgrading only the chip will bring a realistic 18-20 horses? Performance I can feel?