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Outrageous wing..

 
Old 03-09-2017, 12:16 AM
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Martin S.
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Default Outrageous wing..

And that's just what I wanted. For it from Jae Lee, Mirage International in San Diego.

My local AiM Dealer and "wrench" extraordinaire, David from Veracity Racing Data, mounted the wing for me....incredible workmanship.

He used his CAD/CAD to mark up and drill the adjustment points, 0, 3, 6 and 9 degrees. Flawless....
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:21 AM
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Looking pretty serious!
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:21 AM
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Looks like it needs a bath
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:50 AM
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Outrageous indeed.
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:22 PM
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Much ****
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:34 PM
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Hmmm..
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:29 PM
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Do you know about how much down force you are creating with that setup? How wide is the spoiler?
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:53 PM
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Fantastic Martin!!!
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:43 PM
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Martin S.
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Default Bath even..it needed it

How much down force? Who really knows. PAG in their Service Information Technik '96, Bulletin WKD 499 620 1996 says the 993 RS CS creates 160.2 Lbs of downforce with 9 degrees of wing down angle @ 270 kph (162 mph). The question is, who has the HP to overcome that drag? In the same bulletin the 993 RS CS motor puts out 221 kW/300 HP @ 6,500 RPM.

I am running the car & wing this weekend at -6 degrees. The wing is 60" wide, wider than the 993 RS CS wing....so I am assuming I get 120 Lbs at 115 mph...maybe. On a faster track, like California Speedway, where cars with good drivers can see 140+, the downforce will be more, and helpful.

There is no clear cut formula...all I know is when I had the previous 60" Crawford wing on the car a few years back, I picked up 3+ seconds a lap. Sold that wing to buddy when I was going to convert the car back to street....put on several other tails, always lusting for my 60" Crawford wing. Now I have it...and I am glowing. BTW, thanks for asking....


And, IMHO, the wing looks super cool!!!
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:23 AM
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Nice! What size/manufacturer of that top wing element?
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:17 AM
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Martin S.
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Default Wing Mfg.

"From it from Jae Lee, Mirage International in San Diego."

Construction is top rate, BUT, you need to trim the gurney lip to make it fit..that's OK.

You also need to figure out the bolt hole patterns to get the appropriate down angle settings, such as 0, 3, 6, and 9 degrees of down angle. We used a CAD CAM program and hole driller, sweet.

Just back from the track...did it help? Hard to say. I did knock out some good times...was it the wing, the new Hoosiers...ran 4 sessions on well worn Yokohamas...running about 2:11 Buttonwill CW #1...not that quick.

Took off the Yokes, put on new Hoosiers, dropped 3+ seconds...down to 2:07:90...it was the tires. These Hoosiers are addictive.

To be proactive re. understeer, I put the bar on full stiff, center position on the front...no understeer with 6 degrees of down angle.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin S. View Post
How much down force? Who really knows. PAG in their Service Information Technik '96, Bulletin WKD 499 620 1996 says the 993 RS CS creates 160.2 Lbs of downforce with 9 degrees of wing down angle @ 270 kph (162 mph). The question is, who has the HP to overcome that drag? In the same bulletin the 993 RS CS motor puts out 221 kW/300 HP @ 6,500 RPM
Who has the HP, Ha, I do

What are you doing to balance this at the front?

I would put money on the fact you are now creating lift at the front.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:49 PM
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Martin S.
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Loved that build project you did..read the articles.

Originally Posted by trophy View Post
Who has the HP, Ha, I do :evil grin: Oh yes you do have that HP, I don't but can live with bone stock including mufflers and cat, and 261 to the rear wheels: That's enough for me

What are you doing to balance this at the front? I'd worry about it if I had and understeer...I am getting some Joe Toth Dive Planes, and I have the template for front splitter extender if needed. The Dive Planes are awesome..used them in the past, will use them again, soon!!

I would put money on the fact you are now creating lift at the front.
Maybe...no way to tell, car is on rails up to the top speed of Buttonwillow in 4th where I can bounce off the rev limiter. Let me go to my gear chart and check that speed (It's about 110) I will pull it off the AiM SOLO DL too...just need to download the information.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:03 AM
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Now while I agree that you start to balance the car using swaybar/shock adjustments, I generally don't when it comes to using them to balance out potential or actual issues from other modifications. Compensating an aero in-balance with swaybars is a pretty big compromise.

I would think once you get the dive planes on it should balance out the aero, then you can use the sway's and shocks to balance out the handling.

I really like this type of discussion, real world execution and testing, using data for the analysis..... Nice work Martin...
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:48 AM
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Smile Car Balance

Thanks for the kind words...An experienced racer suggested I move the bar up a notch as a preventative measure, middle to full stiff. Having not had the 60" wing on the car since mid 2015, I took his suggestion to heart.

Back in those days, I didn't keep a note book with observations of track conditions, car set-up to include suspension settings. Now I do...I am certain most do. I just couldn't recall what suspension and aero settings I was using.

I ordered the Joe Toth dive planes yesterday...my has a 5th gear high speed left turn (AutoClub California Speedway)..I'll have the dive planes installed and make the appropriate suspension and wing adjustments.
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