Subframe Remove - Catastrophe!
#151
#152
Rennlist Member
But good on you for giving it a shot anyway. Not one shred of fail in this thread IMHO.
Let us know when it's finally sorted, hope it's not too painful on the wallet.
Last edited by bcameron59; 01-24-2017 at 02:01 AM.
#153
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
#154
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
#155
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
#156
Three Wheelin'
I once found what looked most like a 1" piece of screwdriver handle in an oil filter of a 993. Makes you wonder where the rest of the screwdriver is. That's a real problem; one no time-sert can fix. Tlaloc75, you have it easy by comparison
Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed for a quick resolution from here on out.
Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed for a quick resolution from here on out.
#158
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I once found what looked most like a 1" piece of screwdriver handle in an oil filter of a 993. Makes you wonder where the rest of the screwdriver is. That's a real problem; one no time-sert can fix. Tlaloc75, you have it easy by comparison
Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed for a quick resolution from here on out.
Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed for a quick resolution from here on out.
I'm eager to get to resolution too. I'll be on the edge of my seat, waiting and wondering, until I can finish the rest of the suspension and get it to the mechanic for bolt-rehab.
I'm working as fast as I can, plenty motivated!
#159
Looking back and now wondering if we were not screwed from the get go?
Im doing the math after the fact; on the assumption that the math had already been calculated prior to drilling of the pilot hole.
10.5mm, is the drill size for drilling and tapping a M12 x 1.5 internal thread.
A 10.5mm drill measures .413", and a 3/8" drill measures .375", which leaves a difference of .038" ÷ 2 = .019" + .005" thread clearance.
This calculation allows for off center error of no more than .024" before encroahing on the female internal threads when drilling with the 3/8" drill bit.
For visual reference sake, look at a ruler and find the 1/64" marking. Now then, .024" is approx. 1 1/2, 1/64th of an inch.
My eyes are older, but the pilot hole looked to be off center by easily more than .024" and the hole has to be relatively straight as well.
Sorry, I should have done the math beforehand when responding to the OP. Damned assumptions on my part...My belated apologies.
All I can say now is, please SLOW DOWN
Im doing the math after the fact; on the assumption that the math had already been calculated prior to drilling of the pilot hole.
10.5mm, is the drill size for drilling and tapping a M12 x 1.5 internal thread.
A 10.5mm drill measures .413", and a 3/8" drill measures .375", which leaves a difference of .038" ÷ 2 = .019" + .005" thread clearance.
This calculation allows for off center error of no more than .024" before encroahing on the female internal threads when drilling with the 3/8" drill bit.
For visual reference sake, look at a ruler and find the 1/64" marking. Now then, .024" is approx. 1 1/2, 1/64th of an inch.
My eyes are older, but the pilot hole looked to be off center by easily more than .024" and the hole has to be relatively straight as well.
Sorry, I should have done the math beforehand when responding to the OP. Damned assumptions on my part...My belated apologies.
All I can say now is, please SLOW DOWN
#160
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Looking back and now wondering if we were not screwed from the get go?
Im doing the math after the fact; on the assumption that the math had already been calculated prior to drilling of the pilot hole.
10.5mm, is the drill size for drilling and tapping a M12 x 1.5 internal thread.
A 10.5mm drill measures .413", and a 3/8" drill measures .375", which leaves a difference of .038" ÷ 2 = .019" + .005" thread clearance.
This calculation allows for off center error of no more than .024" before encroahing on the female internal threads when drilling with the 3/8" drill bit.
For visual reference sake, look at a ruler and find the 1/64" marking. Now then, .024" is approx. 1 1/2, 1/64th of an inch.
My eyes are older, but the pilot hole looked to be off center by easily more than .024" and the hole has to be relatively straight as well.
Sorry, I should have done the math beforehand when responding to the OP. Damned assumptions on my part...My belated apologies.
All I can say now is, please SLOW DOWN
Im doing the math after the fact; on the assumption that the math had already been calculated prior to drilling of the pilot hole.
10.5mm, is the drill size for drilling and tapping a M12 x 1.5 internal thread.
A 10.5mm drill measures .413", and a 3/8" drill measures .375", which leaves a difference of .038" ÷ 2 = .019" + .005" thread clearance.
This calculation allows for off center error of no more than .024" before encroahing on the female internal threads when drilling with the 3/8" drill bit.
For visual reference sake, look at a ruler and find the 1/64" marking. Now then, .024" is approx. 1 1/2, 1/64th of an inch.
My eyes are older, but the pilot hole looked to be off center by easily more than .024" and the hole has to be relatively straight as well.
Sorry, I should have done the math beforehand when responding to the OP. Damned assumptions on my part...My belated apologies.
All I can say now is, please SLOW DOWN
#161
Yeah, I think if I'd gotten it perfectly down the center the 3/8 could have worked. I didn't have much margin for error and if I'd known better I would have used a smaller step up from the 1/4. Maybe the threads still would have gotten banged up trying to remove what was left...
If hand drilling over an inch deep, I would leave .050"-.060" extra per side. Its very difficult to hit and stay on center with a hand drill; and even more so at an angle, no matter how steep or slight.
...and if I'd known better I would have used a smaller step up from the 1/4.
You are kinda dealing with a double edged blade here...You want as big a hole to accomodate the most robust easy out, and to relieve as much tension as possible. There will always be some error but you want to try to mitigate as much as possible, while giving yourself the best shot at extracting a broken bolt, screw, stud...
As far as machine tools go, only an end mill can change the path in a meaningful way. So no sense in giving it another thought...You fought the good fight, and gained experience not many are even willing to try. So kudos to you!
Last edited by nine9six; 01-25-2017 at 12:10 AM.
#163
You are not far from right! The socks must match the seat belts, black in most cases but there are other colours as well!
#164
Rennlist Member
In this case, is it ok to use a sock colour that's pretty close to PTS, or is that simply gauche, if not an exact match? Should one go with a complementary or contrasting colour instead?
A few have chosen to match the carpet colour or whatever shade they painted the engine fan, but those folks are either pariahs or bleeding edge adopters - only time will tell where the dictates of fashion will take us in the end.
In the meantime, I prefer to use the forum to debate the merits of which oil is best for washing whichever socks I decide to wear.
Last edited by bcameron59; 01-26-2017 at 12:01 AM.
#165
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I totally agree...I like to leave about .030" on a side, when using an easy-out, just so that it has some meat to dig into without hitting the crest of the internal threads, and to provide some error factor.
If hand drilling over an inch deep, I would leave .050"-.060" extra per side. Its very difficult to hit and stay on center with a hand drill; and even more so at an angle, no matter how steep or slight.
Unfortunately, once the pilot hole is drilled, no matter the size you step up, the next drill will tend to follow the pilot hole. Unless you're referring to just leaving more meat in the bore...
You are kinda dealing with a double edged blade here...You want as big a hole to accomodate the most robust easy out, and to relieve as much tension as possible. There will always be some error but you want to try to mitigate as much as possible, while giving yourself the best shot at extracting a broken bolt, screw, stud...
As far as machine tools go, only an end mill can change the path in a meaningful way. So no sense in giving it another thought...You fought the good fight, and gained experience not many are even willing to try. So kudos to you!
If hand drilling over an inch deep, I would leave .050"-.060" extra per side. Its very difficult to hit and stay on center with a hand drill; and even more so at an angle, no matter how steep or slight.
Unfortunately, once the pilot hole is drilled, no matter the size you step up, the next drill will tend to follow the pilot hole. Unless you're referring to just leaving more meat in the bore...
You are kinda dealing with a double edged blade here...You want as big a hole to accomodate the most robust easy out, and to relieve as much tension as possible. There will always be some error but you want to try to mitigate as much as possible, while giving yourself the best shot at extracting a broken bolt, screw, stud...
As far as machine tools go, only an end mill can change the path in a meaningful way. So no sense in giving it another thought...You fought the good fight, and gained experience not many are even willing to try. So kudos to you!
It was definitely an interesting experience. Given what you see in the pictures and the math involved, do you have any concerns around getting a time-sert to fit and work properly? Anything I should be especially aware of when working with my mechanic to finalize the fix?
Thanks again for all the advice and help!