ToddB

I recently bought my first Porsche ( a '90 C2 ). I am completely addicted to the car and am not looking forward to keeping it in the garage this winter! My normal car is a '02 Altima, and I can't stand driving it anymore. I have been toying with the idea of getting a C4 probably 993 to be more of a daily driver. I live just a few miles into the mountains outside of Denver.

How do the 993 C4s handle in snow, with the right tires of course?

STLPCA

Todd
Why not first try your C2 with proper tires. You may be pleasantly surprised by how capably that rear weight bias makes it through snow up to the limits of ground clearance.
That was the point of the old VW bug commercials about how the snowplow driver gets to his snowplow - by driving his RWD, rear engine VW.
AWD would, obviously, be even better.

Check the archives by clicking the "search" link at the top of the page for more, e.g.:

<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005152" target="_blank">C4S in the snow-experiences and advice needed. </a>

<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005756" target="_blank">All year C4 driving ... am I nuts? </a>

<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005916" target="_blank">Does a C4 really need snow tires? </a>

Mike Lincoln

Until this year I lived in Emigration Canyon in Salt Lake City. The 95C4 did fine with proper snow tires. As prevously pointed out, "high centering" is a concern. The plow has to have come through first. Without snow tires (tried that once) it was a disaster. All four wheels are used in everyday braking, of course, whether C2 or C4. The 4WD just gets you moving.

--Mike

Anir

[quote]Originally posted by ToddB:
<strong>How do the 993 C4s handle in snow, with the right tires of course?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Todd,

We don't get nearly as much snow here in Kentucky as in Colorado, but I've managed to use the AWD 993TT through the past two winters with no problem. I've been very pleased with the grip provided by Pirelli 240 Wintersport tires.

The only limitation, other than the low ground clearance mentioned by Mike, may be the lack of any electronic driver's aids such as Dynamic Stability Control on our cars. These are certainly useful modern tools in low-grip conditions.

grouchy

Story time, get your milk and cookies out...

Until recently I had owned a '87 944 Turbo for summer fair weather and a '96 Audi A6 Quattro for everything else. My porsche service manager upset my wife by telling me that I could fit in a 911 just by mounting the seat on the back screw holes instead of the forward ones (gains you another inch or so of leg room). So I sold both my other cars and picked up a '95 993 C4 at the end of May and located a set of Mille Miglia 3 wheels with snow tires for the winter.

I just had my snow tires mounted, dunlop winter sports on 17" wheels, and was driving home late at night from my office up in Chicago with a co-worker. The main roads were a little wet after a day full of snow and salt.

Wet and dry handling seems fine with the snows although my rider mentioned that the tire noise is more pronounced.

Driving through slush at lunch time, it seems like the car is the usual AWD, plenty of grip while under power, although there really wasn't enough snow and slush to really get a good idea.

Back to the driving story, I dropped off my rider at his place in downtown Valparaiso and headed back to my house. On my usual route home, there is a fairly tight backward S curve that starts off from traffic light and then has a half mile straight up to a four way stop. The S curve had a pretty icy surface and a bit of snow on it just a car length in from the main road. I noticed a little slip heading into the S and slowed down just a little which gave me traction and sailed right through the curves.

The car following me tried to stay at the same speed and ended up spinning back and forth about four or five times. I was guessing that they were worrying about the light posts, mailboxes and the apartment complex sign and over correcting.

The four way stop had some icy surface which also gave me no trouble. I stopped with no sliding and turned to head to my house. The car that had gone through the S mostly sideways hit the ice and spun his car through 230 degrees into the middle of the intersection.

So just from how it behaved compared to the car following me I am pretty happy. I have no idea if the car behind me was travelling on slicks or the standard all season radials. I would like to get out in some more snow and ice and see how the AWD handles and whether it is comparable to the audi. That A6Q would go like mad in slippery conditions, but letting off the gas it would just sort of plow along in the one direction.

Hmm, so after all that rambling? Find a set of snow tires and a C4 and experiment for yourself. Looks like it might work just fine.

Ray Calvo

Hmmm - how much snow do you get? How well are the streets plowed? You apparently have some good hills, I'll bet.

I would be worried about ground clearance - esp. with Euro or aftermarket springs.

I have hit several snow storms here in Steelertown where even the Audi A4 Quattro (Sport suspension) with 4 snow tires has had trouble. Bottomed out many times enough to lose traction.

Personally, I'd say quell your Porsche lust till the spring thaw. All it takes is one bad experience to sour you.

ploglet

I had a 964C4 for a while and I live in Boulder, CO. The car did great in snow and I took the car numerous times up to the ski areas witha ski rack onthe car. Make sure you get soem good snow tires and just take your time. I would put the Porsche AWD right next to the Audi AWD. We drive Audi's now but am looking to get into a TT right now. I plan on driving the car and not letting the car become the garage queen. If you get a C4, the only problem I came across was the low ground clearnace issue. Be careful of chunks of snow that are sitting in the middle of the road.
Good luck.

Chris Cantrell

Hi,

I also live in the Denver area. I have the Dunlop 8000's - 17" on my car and they are really bad in snow, especially while braking. I am looking into another cheap daily driver to keep miles off of my 95 993 C4 and to drive during the quick Denver snows I have not invested in the snow tires yet but would almost be certain they would be a big improvement. The main thing that I hate living here and driving during or after a storm, is the rocks which really take a beating on the soft glass used by Porsche.

Anyway, the 993 make great daily cars, even in Denver Happy driving!
-chris

Mark in Baltimore

[quote] Why not first try your C2 with proper tires. You may be pleasantly surprised by how capably that rear weight bias makes it through snow up to the limits of ground clearance.<hr></blockquote>

Car & Driver did a snow test many years ago, one of the cars being either a 3.2 Carrera or a 90's C2. I recall that the Porsche didn't fare too well in the test, although I don't think any of the cars were shod with snow tires.

Personally, I don't want my 993 to see rain, let alone the batterings by snow, salt and, possibly, the occasional, out of control bitchin' Camaro.

STLPCA

[quote]Originally posted by Mark:
<strong>Car & Driver did a snow test ... I recall that the Porsche didn't fare too well in the test, although I don't think any of the cars were shod with snow tires.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My FWD Volvo w/Z rated tires is awful in the snow which is why it's shod w/Pirelli Snowsports. In fact, no car (RWD, FWD or AWD) with wide, low profile, high performance tires will do well in the snow. The wider the worse it'll be. OTOH, my 993 w/correct winter tires is the best snow car in my garage, incl. my wife's A6 Quattro w/"all seasons." The 3 most important snow driving factors are: tires, tires, tires, & then ground clearance.

So what exactly was the point of the test?

Mark in Baltimore

Originally posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis

[quote]My FWD Volvo w/Z rated tires is awful in the snow which is why it's shod w/Pirelli Snowsports. In fact, no car (RWD, FWD or AWD) with wide, low profile, high performance tires will do well in the snow. The wider the worse it'll be. OTOH, my 993 w/correct winter tires is the best snow car in my garage, incl. my wife's A6 Quattro w/"all seasons." The 3 most important snow driving factors are: tires, tires, tires, & then ground clearance.

So what exactly was the point of the test? <hr></blockquote>

I hear ya, Dan. I thought it a bit odd that the magazine didn't use snow tires either but if my fading memory serves me (and it often goes on strike at any old time), the testers wanted to simply use the cars as they came from the factory.

I think most enthusiasts know that skinny tires cut through the snow better than wide tires due to the longitudinal shape of the contact patch.

My trusty brain placed the Porsche in the "Not So Good in Snow Category", despite the performance tire handicap. Since I've never run my 993 in the snow, I'll take your word that it does well. I do recall that the 911 kicked *** in one/some of the snow-covered Monte Carlo rallies back in the 60's or 70's.

What was the point of the test? Well, probably the same point as the marijuana smoke-off (who here remembers that cool story? I was too young to have a connection to pot, not that I would ever do it anyway, no sirree, but it sure made me want to try it. Good thing I've never inhaled. I swear.) test they had performed even before the snow test. 'Cuz it's FUN and 'cuz they CAN!

I love those C&D guys!

Regards,

vjd3

Well, c'mon Mark, tell us the smoke-off story ... my um, short-term memory has failed me.

Vic
95 C4

rkymtn993

Todd,
I also live in the area and am curious to see what happens, especially if you put snow tires on the C2.

Mark in Baltimore

Originally posted by vjd3 [quote] Well, c'mon Mark, tell us the smoke-off story ... my um, short-term memory has failed me. <hr></blockquote>

Funny, vj. I know what you mean.

From what I remember, this test occurred in the late 70's or early 80's and involved writers such as Patrick Bedard, Don Sherman, Mike Knepper and maybe David E. Davis and PJ O'Rourke. Well, these guys toked up, recorded their experiences, and ran tests to assess driver ability, coordination and reaction time. It was, as all C/D articles, really well-written and funny, despite the obvious findings of the "test".

To no one's surprise, pot did not make anyone a better driver. I think these guys were just looking for an excuse to have fun, have the magazine fund it and see if they could get away with actually publishing a story on a controlled substance.

They succeeded on all three counts.