</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by nota_troll:
<strong>Ok. So you don't get lifetime with Gert so where do you get it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Steve Weiner at <a href="http://www.rennsportsystems.com" target="_blank">Rennsport Systems</a>.

Like Ben in Plano I have almost the exact same set up (17" wheels instead of 18"), but on the middle PSS-9 setting, I find the ride to be only a bit firmer than my old, crappy, blown-out stock shocks. No harshness. For the street, you'll be fine with the PSS-9's.

 

This discussion pops up from time to time and I'm always interested because I'm saving my pennies for a suspension, as well. But IMHO, trying to assess "harshness," "compliance," and "handling" through spoken words is nearly impossible since this means 20 different things to 20 different people....heck, the same shock may even feel different to the same person given a different road or mood!

I believe spring rates are a more objective measure. Sure, there are differences in shock compression and rebound valving, but we don't have access to those values. So in my mind, comparing spring rates is the next best thing to finding 3 identical cars, with 3 different suspension setups, and driving them the same route on the same day. Short of that, opinions are just that...subjective value judgments. I'm not trying to throw a wrench into the discussion, just trying to add balance, so sorry if this sounds a bit off. FWIW, from what I've gleaned thus far (from published spring rates AND a variety of people's opinions), I'm leaning toward the H&R setup (for my daily driver plus about 5-7 track weekends/year) since they are Bilstein shocks with a spring rate in between that of PSS9s and M030. Again, not trying to "correct" anyone's opinion...just offereing my perspective

Edward

 

AJ is selling the PSS9s for $1750, just got the email. I agree with Edward on this...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This discussion pops up from time to time and I'm always interested because I'm saving my pennies for a suspension, as well. But IMHO, trying to assess "harshness," "compliance," and "handling" through spoken words is nearly impossible since this means 20 different things to 20 different people....heck, the same shock may even feel different to the same person given a different road or mood!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have the ROW M030 and it is a nice improvement for combination track/street driving. If you don't intend on getting serious into track driving, save your money and get the ROW M030 or the Bilstein/lowered springs combo. Cheaper, simpler to install.

 

I bought a used USA M030 setup for my 993 soon after purchase - springs, shocks, sway bars. I then bought a set of Euro M030 springs and installed the whole package. This was at about 10K miles; car has 75K on it now and is just fine.

This setup is fine for street plus track. I wouldn't want the car any lower for a street-driven vehicle. I don't see the need to go with a PSS9 (or whatever) setup since my track driving is for fun and not competition. Wouldn't want the car any stiffer due to the joyous road condition around here.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 993Widebody:
<strong>AJ is selling the PSS9s for $1750, just got the email.

If you don't intend on getting serious into track driving, save your money and get the ROW M030 or the Bilstein/lowered springs combo. Cheaper, simpler to install.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I checked AJ's site but couldn't locate that PSS9 deal. Is there a code?

Also regarding Bilsteins, Performance Products sells the green housings while Gert sell blue. What's the difference??

TIA

 

From AJ USA...

Bilstein 993 Bilstein PSS9 Suspension Kit
AJR 341 993 A
List: $2795.00
Your Price: $2550.00
Dial in your 993 with exactly the ride you want, compliments of Bilstein. more info...

AND AJ sells yellow Bilsteins! I'm so confused.

 

You can find H&R coilovers (non adjustable, except for ride height) for about $1600 plus shipping--also a good option.

Stiffer than m030 (approximates RS setup) though, and at the edge of maximum firmness for the street IMHO.

Since the pss-9s are actuall stiffer in the rear than these shocks, I have to believe they will be too stiff (at full soft) for some on the street. Be careful, as the labor is significant if you change your mind!!

 

The $1750 from AJUSA is for the shocks/coilovers only. No sways. If you don't get good info. on their web site, try giving them a call.

 

Steve Weiner sells the PSS9s with the upper spring perch. He is a Technical Advisor for the 993 Forum. I'd give him a call.

Like Ray, I purchased a used M030 R0W suspension and added a 21mm rear sway bar instead of the M030 RoW 20mm. I was able to have the shop (Pete @ ANDIAL) drill an extra hole to stiffen up the rear bar to deal with over steer on short tracks.

IMHO it takes a very good driver to maximize the subtle improvements of the PSS9s VS the M030 RoW. The down side of the MO30 RoW, they are OEM Monroe shocks and are not re-buildable, and there is 0 rear ride height adjustment with limited front ride height adjustment.

You can install the PSS9s with M030 RoW sway bars..$300 VS $1,200 for 993RS bars.

If I had to do it over again, I'd get the PSS9s. Nine way adjustable and infinite ride height adjustment for corner balancing and esthetics.

The price delta between the M030 RoW and the PSS9s is not that great when you average the cost out over a few years, pennies a day as they say!!! <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

 

From martin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I was able to have the shop (Pete @ ANDIAL) drill an extra hole to stiffen up the rear bar to deal with over steer on short tracks.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">HUH???? I don't know if this is right - you stiffened the rear bar to DEAL with oversteer??? From everything I've ever learned, including adjusting the Alan Johnson adjustable sway bars differently on my old '84 Carrera depending on whether I was hitting the track or going autocrossing, stiffening the rear bar or lightening the front bar will CAUSE greater oversteer.

 

Just FYI - I am considering the M030 and PSS9 setups, and asked Gert what he would recommend for mostly street use, one to 3 DEs per year. He said the M030. I figure I'll trust him, and snag it when it is on sale sometime in the next year....

BTW - I just put new S03s on the car (came with Priellis), and though tire specs are the same, the S03s are WAY lower profile. If you get these tires, be prepared to lower the car. Not sure why the tires are so different, but.... it's a good excuse to get the suspension upgrade.

Damn slope really is slippery.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Martin S.:
<strong>...The down side of the MO30 RoW, they are OEM Monroe shocks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Forget the M030! UGH! So much input. Thanks.

Methinks me getz H&R springs and Bilsteins shocks.

PS - No suggestions why AJ has yellow, Performance Parts has green and Gert's are blue?

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

 

nota...Why don't you get a little demo before you buy...I'd be happy to show off my RoW M030 w/Bilstein HDs. I'm out in Katy.

Depending on his schedule, you might be able to talk Robert H. into a little ride in the deep blue monster with PSS-9s, RS sways, at RS ride height.

As for cost, with the exchange rate the way it is...I'd give Steve W. at Rennsport a call to see what he can do!

sean

 

Hey Sean.

I live near Memorial City Hospital. What's your schedule? Would like to see the differences.

Thanks for your offer. Marcus.

 

Sorry Ray, what was I thinking <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> ! Understeer, Understeer...that is why I stiffend up the rear bar for the short track. As I recently discovered, the rear sway bar in the stiff position also works on the big tracks, serving to neutralize understeer induced by the 993 3.8 RSR wings.

This seems to work well...just back from a day at California Speedway where we had some 110 mph + high banks to deal with. My 993 car was on the proverbial "rails". Coming off Turn 2 of the Californai Speedway into the short straight, I saw 135 mph on the speedo . I must add, having the Big Reds on the car was a very comforting feeling as the turn at the end of the short straight was a 2nd gear left hander.