adame993

This is clearly a parallel post to one below but it is different enough, I wanted to put this to the board. Here we go:

Hello All,

I need some help with a diagnostic. I'll start with what happened. While driving the car Monday afternoon, the engine cut out. Didn't initially notice until I looked at the guage cluster and had both no revs and the normal pre-start warning light array. This was accompanied by a mechanical humming I did not like hearing - something in revolution. The sound went away when I got the car out of gear and coasted to the side of the road but it was a worrisome noise. The car was both moving and in gear when the noise was made - so I'm hoping the noise was just the engine turning without combustion....but I can't be sure.

Since that time, the car has made it home but will not start. The starter, which is freshly rebuilt, will give the flywheel a small turn then hang up. The sound of the starter sounds very similar to pre-rebuild, almost as if it isn't strong enough to get a full revolution.

What I know:
1. Car stalled while driving
2. Car won't start

Beyond that - I don't know much.

I've done an awful lot of work on the car of late to get it road (all with the motor out)including: Clutch, Slave Cylinder, flywheel/clutch pressure plate bolts, release fork, Starter Rebuild, spark plugs, caps, rotors, ect. Lot of work, lot of parts. The simple fact of the matter is that the car hasn't been on the road in several years...so the failure could be anywhere.

Furthermore, I chased my tail on a Starter issue for a month or two....initially thinking the starter was fine, then needing to have it rebuild locally, then have the ground strap(which I'd pulled to have cleaned) rattle loose. Big headache but eventually fully sorted. For nearly two months, car has run like clockwork.

What I'd really like to do is turn the engine over by hand to make sure I can get through a full crankshaft revolution....make sure there are no obvious mechanical problems inside the motor. Looking at that crankshaft pulley and cross member, I'm not all that confident I can get a cheater bar in there to turn the thing. Has anyone had success with doing this or will the motor need to come back out?

Beyond that, I'll need a list of things to check. I'll take every bit of advice available.

I did verify last night that all the electrical connections and ground are snug at the starter...but that doesn't rule out an electrical cause. There is also the question of if I treat the stalling and starting as separate issues or related...it is entirely possible(at least theoretically) that I don't have enough amps to turn the flywheel. I had the battery tested at 820 cca in February and keep it on a trickle charger. Having very recently heard the anemic sound of dying starter, at the moment, it sounds strong.

Hoping for some feedback guys - I can take any rec's to my Bentley manual for reference as well.

Need the car running for my wedding on 07/22...so I'm hoping the cause is nothing major. Kate is a much cooler getaway than my Accord or Rogue.

mpruden

Sounds like you're on the right track.

Remember, these symptoms could be caused by a failed voltage regulator and nothing more.

When in this situations, I always like to rule out systems that are working correctly. Rotating the engine is a good thing to do and is easy. Use a big wrench on the alternator shaft nut to spin the pulley, which will transfer your force to the belt, and ultimately the belt will spin the crankshaft for you.

After that, check the voltage of the battery at rest and while cranking. Pretty sure you should see no less than 9 volts while cranking. Any less and the battery is toast. If you're concerned about the health of the engine, you could always remove the DME relay as some added insurance from it actually starting.

If you can spin the engine with a good battery, I'd probably do a compression test just to rule out any serious engine problem. It's unlikely, but if you have reason to think there's a problem, why take the risk?

Good luck and keep us posted!

PS - almost forgot. Have you confirmed you have a good DME relay?

axl911

Definitely turn the engine over by hand to see if there is obstruction. Take out the plugs and this will make the engine turns almost freely so you can feel any obstruction.

Another possibility is the starter is not disengaging from the starter ring on the flywheel.

adame993

Excellent - Given that it is a two piece pulley, I wasn't sure if that was the best place to put a ton of pressure. Plus, experience with other engines has taught me that if you can get a wrench on the crankshaft itself....just get a wrench on the crankshaft.

I'll give it a spin at lunch and check voltage at the battery(perks of telecommuting) and post an update after doing so.

After reading the related post, I went ahead and ordered a new DME - which arrives Saturday. Better safe than sorry on that front I figure.

I had a compression/leak down test on the short term horizon anyway...didn't plan to break the car first but now is as good a time as any.

adame993

Well, quick lunch update shows the battery at 12.6v at rest and 8.4v while cranking.

I'll run it by O'Reillys here shortly and get a good battery in the car.

Continue working up the problem from there!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi,

Troubleshooting problems like these requires a lot more information for this process to be constructive & successful.

As an automotive professional, we need to get a holistic picture of the whole car since many symptoms represent a 'red herring' and can send one off in the wrong direction.

We need to know:

1) Mileage (since many components are life-limited)

2) Battery age and condition (same as above)

3) Miles since major tune-up (plugs, caps, rotors, plug wires, oxygen sensor(s), and all filters)

4) Original DME RELAY or not (the DME is the engine computer; the DME relay powers the DME & Fuel pump)

5) All histories of the car.

Armed with all this information, a technician gets a major boost for resolving problems in the least amount of time and that means less cost to the customer.

adame993

Hi Steve,

Allow me to bring you up to speed:

1) Mileage on the car is 149k

2) Battery, as of yesterday afternoon, is brand new. O'Reilly Platinum Series, absorbed glass mat, 760cca....nicest one they had.

3)Miles since prior tune up are less than 100 though I did not change O2 sensors or the fuel filter, which has seized to the fitting. I have another but frankly wasn't in the mood to destroy the line when I was so close to having the car run after 4-5 years off the road. Its on the 'to do' list.

4) DME Relay could be original. I have a 70% complete service history with no indication it was changed and it appears to be the Porsche unit. Have a new DME on order, to arrive Saturday. I plan to swap it out just to be safe.

5) The history of the car is rather lengthy. Any particular system you would be focused on?

While I have owned the car for several years, I am still in the early stages of getting to know her. I got her running roughly 3 months ago and chased starter quirks for about a month of that. Maybe two months of short around town drives to build up my confidence in the vehicle.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Thank you for the additional data; that does help.

While I don't have time to review the full history of the car (which may be useful to spot trends), I would recommend:

1) Clean both ends of the positive & ground battery cables and make sure all connections/grounds are bright, shiny & clean.

2) Replace the DME relay and ALWAYS carry a spare in the glovebox.

At your mileage, I would not rule out a starter issue, but the other stuff (above) should be addressed first.

Best of luck!!!