pp000830

I know it is considered blasphomy but I have been running with;

https://www.tires-easy.com/brands/ac...ires/atr-sport

for years, three sets worth, all season, W speed rated and have a UTQG 400AAA service rating. Even the dealer shakes his head every time I go in for an alignment:

The fronts last several years,
The rears last three or four years,

No cupping or disturbing vibration or sound, nice consistent tread wear, however I am sure they are not as quiet as a 150 UTQG tire. Clearly they are not very sticky but with a long service life and an out the door price in the $400 range, I'm good to go for a daily driver life.

Let the ridicule begin!

Shtootgart

Another vote for Sumi's-been pretty dry so can't speak much for wet grip but I'm on my second set with no complaints

autobonrun

Quad, I have to agree with you. Making a judgement on a tire that's already near the end of it's life cycle makes no sense. I'm on my third set of Sumi's on my 993 and they are fine for street driving. And at the price they sell for, I can swap them out three times at 50% thread depth and still pay less than for more expensive tires. And the Sumi's when not worn are no more noisy than more expensive tires at the same point in their life cycle.

With that said, I'm running several different tires right now on cars just to see how they perform. I have BFG's on my SC, Michelin Pilot Sports on my M5, and my TurboS came with Continental DWS tires. The Conti's are very good tires. They just could not hold traction with I pushed the TurboS really hard or braked really hard. So for summer, I'm now running Yokohama Neova tires on the turbo. They perform much better under hard acceleration and braking but they are a full Summer, darn near race tire. When it gets cold, the Conti's go back on. In fact, the Yokohama's need to be stored in a non cold location. I spoke at length to a Yokohama tire engineer; the compound can actually crack if hit or dropped when cold.

Bottom line is tire selection should really depends on the car's use. For someone that drives to C&C and does light autocross just for fun, discussing steering response and sidewalls makes no sense. Just internet banter. I find the tire differences really show up in track and upper performance regions where you place excessive demands on the tire. Maybe a trip to Starbucks does place excessive demands on a tire and it needs the stiff sidewalls; I can't comment on that.

Allen

I agree. I don't track my car, drive in wet weather, or really even push it too hard...the occasional hot curve once in a while is about it. So honestly, I use whatever tire has the coolest looking tread and makes me feel cool when I'm driving. And since I only drive about 2500 miles a year...price really isn't a factor. My current tires since 5/2008 are Bridgestone RE050. Next will probably be the latest/greatest performing Michelins...just because I have them on all my other cars, they sponsor a lot of race events, and I think they have an awesome reputation in the car community. Oh...and I think are a pretty good tire that will get me through my "hot curve" just fine.

BTW...I would never take my car to Starbucks...no eating or drinking in my car.

How's that for honesty...I guess I'll now be shunned by the community

cgfen

No blasphomy (sic) or ridiculous, just incomprehensible from my perspective.
do what you do.

Craig

nile13

That there comment proves that you don't have any experience with good tires.

It's certainly no better of worse than parking a 993 in your garage and not driving it at all. The high risk of loosing control on brick tires is higher than a risk of your garage falling on your 993, in my opinion. But it's only money and any 993 can be easily, albeit expensively, replaced. The previous tire savings would apply nicely to that project.

Robbing yourself of enjoyment of actually driving the 993 to some level of it's capabilities... hey some people really enjoy driving original 60s muscle cars on bias ply tires with non-existing brakes, so...

nile13

Wholeheartedly agree with the first statement. Those tires mentioned above are just... below any of my personal expectations.

Disagree with the second one. Track people tend to see autocross as a useless diversion. While, to a large degree it is a useless diversion, the amount of car control required and quick and continuous transitions at autocross make track seem like a very steady state exercise (we are into hyperbolae here, right? ). Which makes tires even more important for autocross than track, in my opinion. Whether that is obvious to a very occasional autocross participant... partly depends on whether I'm yelling into his left ear

Quadcammer

Oh come on Craig. AD08Rs and RS3s are pretty much DE tires. Also, daily driving to me includes rain, where I'll take the sumi's every time.

My point is simple. The vast majority of people are not going above 6/10s on the street. That small minority might go 7/10s or so. If you are driving harder on the street, you may be a moron.

Hence, for the vast majority of people, for the vast majority of driving (including mild canyon carving or similar), the Sumis/Evos perform in a manner very similar to PSS or other vastly more expensive tires.

Above 8/10s, there is no doubt there are better tires...but that kind of driving should really be saved for the track.

autobonrun

Actually, we're on the exact same page. Notice I said "light autocross". There are those that autocross regularly where tenths of a second mean the difference between a great day and a lousy day to them. If you are in that group, by all means pay more for the best, stickiest, performance tire you can buy. The Sumitomo doesn't fit this need IMO. Others look at an autocross as an opportunity to have a little fun with their car and just want to see an improvement in their own personal performance from the first run to the last. I happen to fit into this category. For the latter group, the Sumi's are fine in my opinion.

Foxman

Totally agree with this, seeing both track and AX time. The right tires make a HUGE difference when AX'g. I will also that I recently switched from an old set of Michelin PS2's to a brand new set, and the difference in ride feel and handling is astounding. My new suspension didn't make half the difference these new tires made. I'm all for savings, but even if you're a Sunday driver I don't see the benefit in saving a few dollars or stretching tire life for a few more years at the expense of performance, safety, and handling. It is a Porsche after all, not a Prius...

Mike, when are you going to get that 993 off the street? I see it every night on my way home through the North End. The fender guards look much better by the way...

il pirata

Curious if they are the N3 version, and if yes, was the previous set N2 (or N1).

nile13

I understand your point, especially as an instructor for a lot of complete novices (automatic Corolla, anyone?). My GF tends to run once or twice a year at most. She uses my 993. She does feel and comment on tire difference when I ask. She's good at car control though, while not fast. So it's pretty individual thing, of course.

But... I do believe that there's a point of diminishing value. Having really crappy tires on a 993 diminishes enjoyment, even on the street or an occasional autocross. My 993 is my daily driver (well, sorta, I don;t drive much). It's currently on Dunlop StarSpecs. My other daily driver, in FL, just got a set of RE-71s. Not sure it's the right decision, but why not? I do save on cleaning products, though, and on don't drink Starbucks

nile13

RS-3s and, especially, AD08 are significantly batter and safer in teh rain than cheap tires. Especially when braking.

Kinda. Until a moment arrives when you have to emergency brake or actually steer to avoid thing. That's where predictably sticky tire will save your lower 36, while the brick and dust content of a poor (notice, poor, not cheap) tire will not.
It's not about the cost. RS-3s are cheap RE-71, which are far superior, are cheap. Not $400 cheap, but cheap. And, believe me, I drive like a grandma on the street and have had some very different tire on my 993 as a base of personal comparison for a daily driver.

nile13

That's the exact point.

'Course they look better, they are gone Just cleaned out most residue yesterday with Mother's 3R. Roof is new, too.

When is it getting off the street? Probably never. $300 a month for parking... is better spent on tires. Seriously, it usually leaves elsewhere, but when it's here, it's parked on the street. The beauty of city living, I guess. And letting GF park her $1,500 contraption at the building's parking lot. In return I get to transport my race tires in that contraption and... and other benefits... yeah, other benefits, that's it

BTW, it appears that a few people work around downtown. Probably should get together for some beer? On weekday evenings or on weekends I can provide parking for a few cars for my "visitors" at our building's lot.

Foxman

Yes, N3 version on the new Michelins. The old ones were N1's, and dated. I installed new MO33's and Bilstein B8's last winter, but the new suspension pales in comparison to good rubber.