The latest "good bargain" 993 tire still...
06-30-2016, 09:33 PM
#46
I have had both a Miata and a 993, and I agree with nile13 that the Miata's steering feels better. It's lighter and more communicative versus the 993's heavier steering. I often jumped back and forth into both cars, and, at least to me, the difference is noticeable. That doesn't mean the 993's steering feel is bad, but, rather, that Mazda did a better job. YMMV.
Apples n grapes comparo.
The Miata steering and weight is go-cart like in comparison with the 993.
At a bux twenty, an OEM Miata would be a buzzya$$ handful unless properly set up for speed; whereas the 993 would be rock solid...
Again, Apples n grapes comparo
How about an S2000, Miata, old RX-7 or MR2, all 4 cyl offerings in the same weight class.
Last edited by nine9six; 06-30-2016 at 09:54 PM.
06-30-2016, 10:49 PM
#47
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How about an S2000, Miata, old RX-7 or MR2, all 4 cyl offerings in the same weight class.
06-30-2016, 10:53 PM
#48
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06-30-2016, 11:59 PM
#49
Not sure what this is in reference to. But you can compare the steering feel of a 993 and a 997, for example. I've mentioned above that I dove a 993 at indicated 165+ mph and gave my feedback on steering. But we are discussing precision and effort here.
Since I've owned 3 of those for a long time and in multiples, I can answer that question. Miata.
The latest "good bargain" 993 tire still...
And here I thought you fellas went off on a tangent...My comment was in relationship to the steering comparo tangent away from the OP, and onto that of the steering comparison of the Miata vs 993.
...And
How about an S2000, Miata, old RX-7 or MR2, all 4 cyl offerings in the same weight class.
07-06-2016, 12:21 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
BFG Performance
I posted earlier that I had just purchased a set of a new BFG tire for my car, instead of t he Conti DWS models I run on my BMW's.
We just returned from a 2500 mile road trip taking us to the Porsche Parade at Jay Peak, Vermont. While at Parade, we AX'ed the 993 in the rain. I was amazed at how well the tires handled the AX course in a medium sized downpour. The tires never really broke loose during any of the 6 runs we made that day on a course that was about 6000 feet long over an airport runway.
After returning to Chicago, I checked tread depth on the rear tires, and it appears that with about 3000 miles on the rear tires, I may have lost about 1/64" of tread...which is encouraging.
At 3000 miles, the tires still ride quietly, and handle well. It will be interesting to see what the tires do at the 10K point.
We just returned from a 2500 mile road trip taking us to the Porsche Parade at Jay Peak, Vermont. While at Parade, we AX'ed the 993 in the rain. I was amazed at how well the tires handled the AX course in a medium sized downpour. The tires never really broke loose during any of the 6 runs we made that day on a course that was about 6000 feet long over an airport runway.
After returning to Chicago, I checked tread depth on the rear tires, and it appears that with about 3000 miles on the rear tires, I may have lost about 1/64" of tread...which is encouraging.
At 3000 miles, the tires still ride quietly, and handle well. It will be interesting to see what the tires do at the 10K point.
07-06-2016, 10:25 AM
#51
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So you got a car with bad set of tires on them, and you're gonna swear off on reasonably priced tires? Your precious sets of Michelins also have bad ones on occasion. I've run Sumitomos for 30+K miles and they are fantastic for the money.
On the street, if you tell me you can tell the difference in performance, I'm ready to call you a liar.
On the street, if you tell me you can tell the difference in performance, I'm ready to call you a liar.
I'll bet you significant cash
..............................That i can tell you the difference between say cheapo but adequate Evo12s / Sumi IIIs VS AD08R or RS-3s.
I've been through about 18 sets of tyres in the past 8 years and my choices top to bottom for daily driver that I want to stick to the road in dry weather are..........................
drum roll please
- Hankook RS-3
- Michelin PSSS
- Yoko AD08R would score higher, but oh those stiff sidewalls
- Bridgestone RE-11
- Kumho ecsta something
- Hankook Evo 12
- Sumi IIIs this is the only tyre I would NOT buy again
I am fundamentally bummed that the Bridgestone RE-71 does not come in appropriate sizing for the 360 or GT3. I may buy a set for the GT3 anyway knowing that the rear tyres are one size too narrow. The extra grip will probably more than make up for 10mm size differential.
have fun
buy GOOD tyres
They are your primary interface between your 993 and the tarmac
Craig
07-06-2016, 10:28 AM
#52
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Less than 500 miles, manufacture dates of 2013.
Craig
07-06-2016, 11:54 AM
#53
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OP here with brief check in:
Little mileage so far on my Conti DW (not the "DWS" which accommodates wet weather), and so far I like em. Sidewalls are, indeed, softer than I like, but c'mon, it's a street tire on which I commute so I must compromise between the handling precision and the daily ruts, potholes, and misc CalTrans lapses. Inflating to 36F/37R cold helped with sharpening the turn-in and overall feedback. Too soon to tell for certain, but I think I like them better than the Hankook V12s, and the price is only marginally more. We'll see how these Contis fare as the miles rack up, but so far, me likey.
Edward
Little mileage so far on my Conti DW (not the "DWS" which accommodates wet weather), and so far I like em. Sidewalls are, indeed, softer than I like, but c'mon, it's a street tire on which I commute so I must compromise between the handling precision and the daily ruts, potholes, and misc CalTrans lapses. Inflating to 36F/37R cold helped with sharpening the turn-in and overall feedback. Too soon to tell for certain, but I think I like them better than the Hankook V12s, and the price is only marginally more. We'll see how these Contis fare as the miles rack up, but so far, me likey.
Edward
07-06-2016, 06:00 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
OP here with brief check in:
Little mileage so far on my Conti DW (not the "DWS" which accommodates wet weather), and so far I like em. Sidewalls are, indeed, softer than I like, but c'mon, it's a street tire on which I commute so I must compromise between the handling precision and the daily ruts, potholes, and misc CalTrans lapses. Inflating to 36F/37R cold helped with sharpening the turn-in and overall feedback. Too soon to tell for certain, but I think I like them better than the Hankook V12s, and the price is only marginally more. We'll see how these Contis fare as the miles rack up, but so far, me likey.
Edward
Little mileage so far on my Conti DW (not the "DWS" which accommodates wet weather), and so far I like em. Sidewalls are, indeed, softer than I like, but c'mon, it's a street tire on which I commute so I must compromise between the handling precision and the daily ruts, potholes, and misc CalTrans lapses. Inflating to 36F/37R cold helped with sharpening the turn-in and overall feedback. Too soon to tell for certain, but I think I like them better than the Hankook V12s, and the price is only marginally more. We'll see how these Contis fare as the miles rack up, but so far, me likey.
Edward
I'm in the same boat - lousy NYC streets. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
BTW AFAIK DWS is Dry,Wet,Snow which are appropriate for colder temps.
07-06-2016, 10:12 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I looked at DWS, the BFG, and the Michelin Pilot A/S 3, I think they all looked pretty good, but went with the Michelin.
.
07-07-2016, 12:31 AM
#56
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After you get some miles on them would appreciate a review.
07-23-2016, 01:49 AM
#57
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From the OP - an UPDATE:
I just put 1k miles on my anniversary trip with the wife on the new Conti DW, as well as the Walrod bushings and new alignment settings. Sweeeet!
1. These Conti DW tires are sooo much better than my previous Hankook V12s, IMHO. I can only guess that the sidewalls/carcass is stiffer as that vague "squishy" feeling I had when I put on the kooks had me wondering why so many liked em. Pumping them up to 37/39psi (stock 17" Cups) helped some, but they were not terribly confidence inspiring. As I racked up miles, they didn't change; I just got accustomed to them.
BUT by contrast, now with the Conti set. the feel was immediately more direct and immediate, and no squishy or vague feeling whatsoever. I settled on 36/37 psi, put on 1k miles, and am a very happy camper!
Sidenote meanderings:
- the Walrod bushings set the world aright again. Steering feel is superb and no more 50mph shimmy!
- the alignment courtesy of Darrin at WestEnd Alignment absolutely rocks!
As for the tires, the modest price difference with the Conti over the Hankook absolutely is well worth it! I hope my high opinion of them remains as I rack on the miles
Edward
I just put 1k miles on my anniversary trip with the wife on the new Conti DW, as well as the Walrod bushings and new alignment settings. Sweeeet!
1. These Conti DW tires are sooo much better than my previous Hankook V12s, IMHO. I can only guess that the sidewalls/carcass is stiffer as that vague "squishy" feeling I had when I put on the kooks had me wondering why so many liked em. Pumping them up to 37/39psi (stock 17" Cups) helped some, but they were not terribly confidence inspiring. As I racked up miles, they didn't change; I just got accustomed to them.
BUT by contrast, now with the Conti set. the feel was immediately more direct and immediate, and no squishy or vague feeling whatsoever. I settled on 36/37 psi, put on 1k miles, and am a very happy camper!
Sidenote meanderings:
- the Walrod bushings set the world aright again. Steering feel is superb and no more 50mph shimmy!
- the alignment courtesy of Darrin at WestEnd Alignment absolutely rocks!
As for the tires, the modest price difference with the Conti over the Hankook absolutely is well worth it! I hope my high opinion of them remains as I rack on the miles
Edward
07-24-2016, 12:17 PM
#58
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Achilles Tires
I use these with a 400 wear rating I get two to three years out of rears and 4+ years out of the fronts. They are all season so they don't get slippery in cooler weather. A good bit less grip than a soft compound performance tire but they work for me. I get lots of venomous blow back from the Reenlist community when I suggest these tires but now that I have owned several sets of them I feel my experience is not just antidotal. I do remount and rotate the rear tires left to right/right to left once a year due to the known 993 wear pattern on the rears. They price out at about $400 for a set of 4 delivered last time I ordered them.
http://www.achillestireusa.com/tires/performance
http://www.achillestireusa.com/tires/performance
08-30-2016, 06:08 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
IMHO,
Apples n grapes comparo.
The Miata steering and weight is go-cart like in comparison with the 993.
At a bux twenty, an OEM Miata would be a buzzya$$ handful unless properly set up for speed; whereas the 993 would be rock solid...
Again, Apples n grapes comparo
How about an S2000, Miata, old RX-7 or MR2, all 4 cyl offerings in the same weight class.
Apples n grapes comparo.
The Miata steering and weight is go-cart like in comparison with the 993.
At a bux twenty, an OEM Miata would be a buzzya$$ handful unless properly set up for speed; whereas the 993 would be rock solid...
Again, Apples n grapes comparo
How about an S2000, Miata, old RX-7 or MR2, all 4 cyl offerings in the same weight class.
OT from Edward's original post, but the weight difference has little to do with the steering feel. We're not talking handling; this is steering feel.
Nile13 got it right; the 993 feeling is just okay. I agree with him that, around town, the 993 steering feels heavy and not very communicative. The Miata steering, by comparison, is light and you have a much better sense of what the front tires are doing. When the front loses grip, the car steering gets a bit lighter, the way well-designed geometry should. In all fairness, I've driven cars that were much better than the Miata.
Further, the 993's steering ratio is 16.48, whereas the Miata is 15:1. I am aware that the ratio is but one component to steering feel.
I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours driving both 993s and Miatas at speed; have you?
My thought on the 993 steering, to be more exact is this. It's a good steering system. It is designed for high speed and is weighed properly for those speeds. I have, stupidly enough, had my first car up to an indicated 165 mph and at that speed the car felt controlled, steering had very good feel on-center and any minor movement had what seems proper effect. At city speeds, however, the steering feels overly heavy, very long and, I can't quite explain it, but old fashioned SO that's my comment about tractor-like. It's not bad, it's just I know that I do more control with the right foot than with the steering wheel.
My 993 currently has Bilstein H8s with M030, Walrod bushing, new steering rack, decent street alignment, smaller 996 steering wheel, and I've had it on assorted 17" and 18" wheels and many different tires, so I don't think geometry or components are the issue. This is my second 993 and I've driven quite a few, including some of the competitors, so the feeling is pretty well established in my mind. Interestingly, 993 cab is pretty solid and feel is not very different from coupes on the street. To that end, a 964 is even more on the tractor steering side, with even longer rack and even larger steering wheel. And older 911s are even more so, though they are lighter. I would love to gear fro people who race their 911s for a long time, but my feeling has always been that your right foot does more precise steering than your hands. Part of it is the nature of rear engined car, of course.
We can compare to other cars, but I have many, many years of experience with Miatas and first generation MR2s. BTW, I've never really drive Miata fast, but do believe that it might not feel as nice at triple digit speeds. The other funny thing is, I really can;t drive a non-power steering Miatas. Even though I was brought up on cars with manual racks, including all y MR2s.
My 993 currently has Bilstein H8s with M030, Walrod bushing, new steering rack, decent street alignment, smaller 996 steering wheel, and I've had it on assorted 17" and 18" wheels and many different tires, so I don't think geometry or components are the issue. This is my second 993 and I've driven quite a few, including some of the competitors, so the feeling is pretty well established in my mind. Interestingly, 993 cab is pretty solid and feel is not very different from coupes on the street. To that end, a 964 is even more on the tractor steering side, with even longer rack and even larger steering wheel. And older 911s are even more so, though they are lighter. I would love to gear fro people who race their 911s for a long time, but my feeling has always been that your right foot does more precise steering than your hands. Part of it is the nature of rear engined car, of course.
We can compare to other cars, but I have many, many years of experience with Miatas and first generation MR2s. BTW, I've never really drive Miata fast, but do believe that it might not feel as nice at triple digit speeds. The other funny thing is, I really can;t drive a non-power steering Miatas. Even though I was brought up on cars with manual racks, including all y MR2s.
