HWFM Corp logo
10-06-2003 | 06:34 PM
#19
Addict & Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,897
Likes: 3
From: St. Louis
SYF
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but perhaps you should check w/Mike in Chi (& John D) since:
1. HWFM is Mike's team & his concept
2. Mike owns the name
3. Mike has already made a commitment & an investment in the existing logo
4. w/o Mike's prior approval you're violating his copyright
5. w/o John D's approval your use of the Rennlist logo is also illegal
On a personal level, if Mike doesn't want or care for your designs, you've put him in an awkward public situation having to balance protecting his interests and not offending an obviously very creative & well intentioned fellow Rennlister.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but perhaps you should check w/Mike in Chi (& John D) since:
1. HWFM is Mike's team & his concept
2. Mike owns the name
3. Mike has already made a commitment & an investment in the existing logo
4. w/o Mike's prior approval you're violating his copyright
5. w/o John D's approval your use of the Rennlist logo is also illegal
On a personal level, if Mike doesn't want or care for your designs, you've put him in an awkward public situation having to balance protecting his interests and not offending an obviously very creative & well intentioned fellow Rennlister.
10-06-2003 | 11:03 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis
SYF
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but perhaps you should check w/Mike in Chi (& John D) since:
1. HWFM is Mike's team & his concept
2. Mike owns the name
3. Mike has already made a commitment & an investment in the existing logo
4. w/o Mike's prior approval you're violating his copyright
5. w/o John D's approval your use of the Rennlist logo is also illegal
On a personal level, if Mike doesn't want or care for your designs, you've put him in an awkward public situation having to balance protecting his interests and not offending an obviously very creative & well intentioned fellow Rennlister.
SYF
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but perhaps you should check w/Mike in Chi (& John D) since:
1. HWFM is Mike's team & his concept
2. Mike owns the name
3. Mike has already made a commitment & an investment in the existing logo
4. w/o Mike's prior approval you're violating his copyright
5. w/o John D's approval your use of the Rennlist logo is also illegal
On a personal level, if Mike doesn't want or care for your designs, you've put him in an awkward public situation having to balance protecting his interests and not offending an obviously very creative & well intentioned fellow Rennlister.
Good points you've brought up... I haven't seen or heard anything out from either Mike or John.D
Should there be any violent disagreement
i'll swiftly delete the post... it is just a post, a suggestion not an absolute truth 
HWFM is Mike's baby, i'm just chipping in my 0.2 (commercially, this work costs alot of money )... It's just my way of giving back to the track day community.
It is entirely his perogative to choose or reject...
I apologise if i have threaded on any toes here.
imho, anyone that publishes informative opinions on the net should expect criticisms... my work is no exception
10-07-2003 | 09:06 AM
#21
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,321
Likes: 177
From: The Flying Turtle Ranch
SYF and other team mates
I debated whether to Private Messsage you or post publicly. I decided to post so as to share my thoughts with everyone.
I want you to know I appreciate your enthusiasm, your creativity, and your involvement in the team.
And I hope it continues.
Those qualities led to a lot of fun at a number of tracks around the country this summer.
But Dan's message was insightful, understanding, and right on the money.
This is my team. I named it last year for my budding PCA Club Racing effort. Danny, Phil and a succession of others saw it and the slogan in my signature, and asked if they could become of a part of the team. I love witty, clever people, and especially those who are as crazy about Porsches as I am. I realized extending my "team" could provide a lot of enjoyment for a lot of people.
The turtle logo was my idea. My concept.
I like the logo. I like the way it was developed.
Princeton supplied the turtle drawing, unsolicited. I think the drawing is fun, and captures the HWFMR spirit. I guided the overall design of the logo. One of my colleagues did the type.
Some team mates have asked permission to reproduce the logo for use at events in their own region. I encouraged them to do so.
Although Rennlist was the catalyst for the growth of the team, and something everyone on the team is loyal too, I would never presume to use the Rennlist name or logo without John D's permission. Not only is that common courtesy, there are serious legal ramifications as Dan points out.
I will always be open to suggestions. I will gladly consider other ideas for additional identity devices. I may even come up with more on my own.
You may respond "isn't this badge an additional identity device?"
My concerns are that it is getting close to Porsche property.
Also, "HWFM" is meaningless to others. It works for us in posts, but the fun in it is what it says to others, and watching them "get" the humor and irony in the name. The name has garnered a lot of attention this summer. A number of people have asked where they can get the tee or hat unprompted. I believe in most applications, the name needs to stay prominent.
Finally I like "for" not "fer" "Fer" is too much Jim Bob, not that that's a bad thing. (Now that I think about it, maybe Finn is Jim Bob!!)
As to a car badge or badge-like design, you sure we need one? Have you considered the expense?
I'm open to any idea ideas that lead to more enjoyment for the people who are involved in the team. And I hope the creativity, enthusiasm and humor displayed this season continue. But the team name and logo are not anyone's to co-opt.
Thanks for understanding.
BTW, "threaded on any toes here" is lol funny.
I debated whether to Private Messsage you or post publicly. I decided to post so as to share my thoughts with everyone.
I want you to know I appreciate your enthusiasm, your creativity, and your involvement in the team.
And I hope it continues.
Those qualities led to a lot of fun at a number of tracks around the country this summer.
But Dan's message was insightful, understanding, and right on the money.
This is my team. I named it last year for my budding PCA Club Racing effort. Danny, Phil and a succession of others saw it and the slogan in my signature, and asked if they could become of a part of the team. I love witty, clever people, and especially those who are as crazy about Porsches as I am. I realized extending my "team" could provide a lot of enjoyment for a lot of people.
The turtle logo was my idea. My concept.
I like the logo. I like the way it was developed.
Princeton supplied the turtle drawing, unsolicited. I think the drawing is fun, and captures the HWFMR spirit. I guided the overall design of the logo. One of my colleagues did the type.
Some team mates have asked permission to reproduce the logo for use at events in their own region. I encouraged them to do so.
Although Rennlist was the catalyst for the growth of the team, and something everyone on the team is loyal too, I would never presume to use the Rennlist name or logo without John D's permission. Not only is that common courtesy, there are serious legal ramifications as Dan points out.
I will always be open to suggestions. I will gladly consider other ideas for additional identity devices. I may even come up with more on my own.
You may respond "isn't this badge an additional identity device?"
My concerns are that it is getting close to Porsche property.
Also, "HWFM" is meaningless to others. It works for us in posts, but the fun in it is what it says to others, and watching them "get" the humor and irony in the name. The name has garnered a lot of attention this summer. A number of people have asked where they can get the tee or hat unprompted. I believe in most applications, the name needs to stay prominent.
Finally I like "for" not "fer" "Fer" is too much Jim Bob, not that that's a bad thing. (Now that I think about it, maybe Finn is Jim Bob!!)
As to a car badge or badge-like design, you sure we need one? Have you considered the expense?
I'm open to any idea ideas that lead to more enjoyment for the people who are involved in the team. And I hope the creativity, enthusiasm and humor displayed this season continue. But the team name and logo are not anyone's to co-opt.
Thanks for understanding.
BTW, "threaded on any toes here" is lol funny.
10-07-2003 | 10:58 AM
#22
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 878
Likes: 0
Mike,
Perhaps the title on the thread should read "HWFM logo proposal"... in fact, that is the title that reads on the 993TT forum which I posted simultaneously. It was never an intent to impose my views on how HWFM should look or feel. Just an evolving suggestion
The intent of the post serves only as an artistic outlet and nothing more.
In the spirit of freely expressed contributions and opinions, I was curious to see how other members and your goodself would contribute in the design effort. Just as our favourite marque has evolved, I saw an opportunity where a collective contribution could be expressed.
It is my opinion that HWFM is defined by the passion and enthusiasm that all its members and founders exhibit. If i could be lucky enough to capture some of its passion and enthusiasm and put it into a logo. I think the result would be an artistic expression that many would hold closely to their hearts.
Up to this point, I have made it a point to be entirely inclusive of all the design elements in the original design of the HWFM logo.
quote "...I would never presume to use the Rennlist name or logo without John D's permission. Not only is that common courtesy, there are serious legal ramifications as Dan points out."
As mentioned earlier (and also in the 993 twinturbo post), the operative word was proposal (hence the question mark on the post).
If I have projected the rennlist or HWFM in an unfavourable light, then perhaps my common courtesy/manners should be in question.
Again, the purpose of this post was to seek consent from your goodself and HWFM members on what I had believed to be my little contribution to the board and its members for the valuable advice and support shown in the few short months since i have registered.
My removal of the offending material is a show of common courtesy.
The carbon shield and crest design was done completely independently of the porsche crest.
Its athuenticity and originality was founded in my lap top Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche all use a crest... for that matter, so do many other famous prestigious marques and royal families.
My design is unique, and contains elements that are original. I would be interested to know how this infringes on any other manufacturers intellectual property.
Since you have expressed displeasure in evolving the team logo, then the exercise ends here. (Criticism and preferences are part and parcel of my trait). Yours in particular matters the most.
I sincerely apologise for any insensitivity on my part, consider it an ill fated attempt to drum up enthusiasm and participation from the floor. It won't happen again
Perhaps the title on the thread should read "HWFM logo proposal"... in fact, that is the title that reads on the 993TT forum which I posted simultaneously. It was never an intent to impose my views on how HWFM should look or feel. Just an evolving suggestion
The intent of the post serves only as an artistic outlet and nothing more.
In the spirit of freely expressed contributions and opinions, I was curious to see how other members and your goodself would contribute in the design effort. Just as our favourite marque has evolved, I saw an opportunity where a collective contribution could be expressed.
It is my opinion that HWFM is defined by the passion and enthusiasm that all its members and founders exhibit. If i could be lucky enough to capture some of its passion and enthusiasm and put it into a logo. I think the result would be an artistic expression that many would hold closely to their hearts.
Up to this point, I have made it a point to be entirely inclusive of all the design elements in the original design of the HWFM logo.
quote "...I would never presume to use the Rennlist name or logo without John D's permission. Not only is that common courtesy, there are serious legal ramifications as Dan points out."
As mentioned earlier (and also in the 993 twinturbo post), the operative word was proposal (hence the question mark on the post).
If I have projected the rennlist or HWFM in an unfavourable light, then perhaps my common courtesy/manners should be in question.
Again, the purpose of this post was to seek consent from your goodself and HWFM members on what I had believed to be my little contribution to the board and its members for the valuable advice and support shown in the few short months since i have registered.
My removal of the offending material is a show of common courtesy.
The carbon shield and crest design was done completely independently of the porsche crest.
Its athuenticity and originality was founded in my lap top
Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche all use a crest... for that matter, so do many other famous prestigious marques and royal families. My design is unique, and contains elements that are original. I would be interested to know how this infringes on any other manufacturers intellectual property.
Since you have expressed displeasure in evolving the team logo, then the exercise ends here. (Criticism and preferences are part and parcel of my trait). Yours in particular matters the most.
I sincerely apologise for any insensitivity on my part, consider it an ill fated attempt to drum up enthusiasm and participation from the floor. It won't happen again
Last edited by ruffy; 10-07-2003 at 11:16 AM.
10-07-2003 | 12:49 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 19
From: North Dakota
It seems to be that Superyellowfly did an artistic design with nothing but enthusiasm for the team in mind. I'm surprised by the "ramifications", as I am sure he is. From his signature, it appears that Superyellowfly is not yet a member of HWFM Racing. I think his enthusiasm alone should earn him a spot.
10-07-2003 | 01:14 PM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
From: Manhattan
Originally posted by ca993twin
I think his enthusiasm alone should earn him a spot.
I think his enthusiasm alone should earn him a spot.
But only if he promises to constantly modify that Ruf so that it doesn't hit the track
lol. Otherwise he will have to subscribe to the team motto in order to keep from passing anyone. superyellowfly- Also sorry to hear about your engine problems. Best of luck in sorting that out quickly. Whats your name anyhow? superyellowfly is getting cumbersome to type haha.
