help .. am i toast?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2003
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help .. am i toast?
ok tomorrow is my first track day on my stock 95, 993 cab. i have four of my colleagues who are relative novices who are going to be there. two with TT's and the other two have BMW M3's. do i stand a chance? what are some pointers --- about turns and straight aways ... the track is a 1.7 miles with lots of turns.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,054
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Stand a chance for what? DE's and track days are non-competitive events.
In any case, below a certain skill level, the car you drive is a minor factor. I have passed 996 GT2's and GT3's, and have been passed by Miata's.
In any case, below a certain skill level, the car you drive is a minor factor. I have passed 996 GT2's and GT3's, and have been passed by Miata's.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 52
From: Chicago
Do you stand a chance at what??? Do you have a DAS roll bar?? 5 pt harnesses? An instructor? If you have not been on a track (and I guess you have not as you are asking for pointers) take it very easy and dont worry about what your colleagues are doing. The tire walls and armcos dont move out of your way when you make a mistake. As inexpensive as our cars are becoming, 10K of body work for a little mistake is the norm.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 681
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From: Plano, TX
Assuming you are going to MSR...
Get a 911 driver as an instructor and listen carefully. There are a couple of fast corners (Richochet and Big Bend) that can lead to very big OTE's if you even think about lifting.
Have fun!
Get a 911 driver as an instructor and listen carefully. There are a couple of fast corners (Richochet and Big Bend) that can lead to very big OTE's if you even think about lifting.
Have fun!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2003
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no rollbar and no harness. thanks eric ......... i wanted to drive aggressively and i've been on that track before with my vfr motorcycle but im a complete neophite when it comes to cars and going fast. anyway i think im going to take your advice. it's just going to bruise my ego ........... i didn't want to be a poseur in my 993.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2003
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yes ben it's msr ...... what's ote's and lifting? the track day is sponsored by bobby archer and to get instructions it's $600 and only $175 for the track day. i don't think he drives porsches .... from his website i think he likes big muscle cars.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 52
From: Chicago
Originally posted by ksjcorpus
no rollbar and no harness. thanks eric ......... i wanted to drive aggressively and i've been on that track before with my vfr motorcycle but im a complete neophite when it comes to cars and going fast. anyway i think im going to take your advice. it's just going to bruise my ego ........... i didn't want to be a poseur in my 993.
no rollbar and no harness. thanks eric ......... i wanted to drive aggressively and i've been on that track before with my vfr motorcycle but im a complete neophite when it comes to cars and going fast. anyway i think im going to take your advice. it's just going to bruise my ego ........... i didn't want to be a poseur in my 993.
Enjoy
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Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 681
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From: Plano, TX
OTE = Off Track Excursion
Lifting is the tendency to back off the throttle (lift) in a turn when you feel yourself getting into trouble. In a 911 at speed this can very quickly lead to a major spin - induced by 'lift-throttle oversteer' - i.e. you are suddenly watching the traffic behind you!
Ask around - many of the instructors in the area are from the local PCA club - there's a good chance that a 911 driver will be around.
You should also consider the Driver's Edge (www.driversedge.net) event at MSR in early November. It's run by a guy who got his start in PCA. He typically has many 911 based instructors and drives a 911 himself.
MSR is pretty safe if you go off as you know - but honestly I wouldn't have wanted to drive it my first time without instruction. But I had never been on any track of any sort when I first went there.
Check out the local PCA website for some good information on how to check out your car for readiness - and for an informative track description from the car point of view.
MSR Description
Maverick Region Tech Form
And if you're not a member consider joining the local PCA chapter - it's very active!
Ben
Lifting is the tendency to back off the throttle (lift) in a turn when you feel yourself getting into trouble. In a 911 at speed this can very quickly lead to a major spin - induced by 'lift-throttle oversteer' - i.e. you are suddenly watching the traffic behind you!
Ask around - many of the instructors in the area are from the local PCA club - there's a good chance that a 911 driver will be around.
You should also consider the Driver's Edge (www.driversedge.net) event at MSR in early November. It's run by a guy who got his start in PCA. He typically has many 911 based instructors and drives a 911 himself.
MSR is pretty safe if you go off as you know - but honestly I wouldn't have wanted to drive it my first time without instruction. But I had never been on any track of any sort when I first went there.
Check out the local PCA website for some good information on how to check out your car for readiness - and for an informative track description from the car point of view.
MSR Description
Maverick Region Tech Form
And if you're not a member consider joining the local PCA chapter - it's very active!
Ben
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2002
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Karim,
There is only one piece of advice here that matters, and Ben gave it. Get an instructor, and do everything he says. Nothing will help you more that that one thing.
And if he wants to drove your car, get another instructor.
There is only one piece of advice here that matters, and Ben gave it. Get an instructor, and do everything he says. Nothing will help you more that that one thing.
And if he wants to drove your car, get another instructor.
Addict
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From: Encinitas, CA
OTE = Off Track Excursion, and you do NOT want to have one on your first day .
And by "lifting" he means backing off the throttle. Doing so in the wrong place, i.e. the middle of a corner will cause and OTE. If you have not practiced pitch-and-catch I would suggest approaching the corner a little slower than you might think you should just to be safe.
BTW, pitch-and-catch is when you lift in the middle of a turn on purpose to rotate the back end of the car around to help you through the corner. It is a LOT easier to do in your rear-engined 993 than it is in my mid-engined Boxster (on purpose or accident).
These are things you probably should practice in a slower more controlled environment (i.e. autocross), not on your first day at the track.
.And by "lifting" he means backing off the throttle. Doing so in the wrong place, i.e. the middle of a corner will cause and OTE. If you have not practiced pitch-and-catch I would suggest approaching the corner a little slower than you might think you should just to be safe.
BTW, pitch-and-catch is when you lift in the middle of a turn on purpose to rotate the back end of the car around to help you through the corner. It is a LOT easier to do in your rear-engined 993 than it is in my mid-engined Boxster (on purpose or accident).
These are things you probably should practice in a slower more controlled environment (i.e. autocross), not on your first day at the track.
Last edited by NetManiac; Sep 30, 2003 at 07:46 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Moraga, California
$175 for a track day - that seems like a good deal.
$600 for instruction - that seems like a rip off, unless its Hurley Haywood doing the instructing.
I think if I was in your shoes, I'd find a different track day that has instruction at a reasonable price. My first and only track day was with the Nor Cal Audi Club. You are required to have an instructor with you until you "solo", probably your third time minimum. I liked that set-up.
Greg H.
$600 for instruction - that seems like a rip off, unless its Hurley Haywood doing the instructing.
I think if I was in your shoes, I'd find a different track day that has instruction at a reasonable price. My first and only track day was with the Nor Cal Audi Club. You are required to have an instructor with you until you "solo", probably your third time minimum. I liked that set-up.
Greg H.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,300
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From: Nor Cal
Karim, take it easy on your first track day. You'll have to fight off a lot of bad habits that you never knew you had.
Do you homework first, go get a copy of Going Faster ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 ) and read it before you go. Memorize the track so that you can replay each corner in your mind. Watch lots and lots of track videos.
Do you homework first, go get a copy of Going Faster ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 ) and read it before you go. Memorize the track so that you can replay each corner in your mind. Watch lots and lots of track videos.