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It was stock engine and wider tires don't really give you more grip.
Really now... Care to explain? I'm sure quite a few race teams would love to save the dough used in buying 13" race slicks. And don't say that it's because friction is not dependent on surface area. Race tires only derive 30-50% of their grip from simple F=uN friction.
Really now... Care to explain? I'm sure quite a few race teams would love to save the dough used in buying 13" race slicks. And don't say that it's because friction is not dependent on surface area. Race tires only derive 30-50% of their grip from simple F=uN friction.
As the tire grows wider the contact patch get wider but shorter. So the overall contact patch doesn't really increase. Obviously this is true only in certain range or all cars would have bicycle tires on.
The subject is way more complicated because your camber and toe setting will play a role as well as the amount of weight you transfer in a corner to a given tire, tire pressure etc. etc. Also wider tires on wider wheels give you wider track.
wider tires do generally give more grip(when the suspension is set up right)
You are correct that the contact patch area is the same(all else being equal) but the critical thing is the shape of the patch, the shorter & wider contact patch runs at lower slip angles and can thus generate more side force. It also runs cooler.
wider tires do generally give more grip(when the suspension is set up right)
You are correct that the contact patch area is the same(all else being equal) but the critical thing is the shape of the patch, the shorter & wider contact patch runs at lower slip angles and can thus generate more side force. It also runs cooler.
Agreed.
But wouldn't lateral grip then come at the expense of the grip you need for braking/accelerating?
Agreed.
But wouldn't lateral grip then come at the expense of the grip you need for braking/accelerating?
Yes, but neither of those is as important as the lateral grip in a track environment.
The accel/decel grip limit is rarely approached, the decel being approached(or exceeded) more often than accel.
On track the lateral grip is where lower lap times come from.
2 kinds on 911/964/993 run circles around me, those w/ 930/turbo/GT2 fenders and corresponding wheels/tires, those w/ Hoosier or better. Of course those w/ both are quickest.
I should add that those that are also better drivers are also faster
one more thought on the tires, the carcass construction makes the tread much more grippy fore and aft than laterally. The carcass just doesn't distort as much.
The guy on very wide tires wasn't particuraly fast and was telling me that he can't really tell how much he pushes the tires and keeps spinning out at various events, which brings his confidence down. Those were street tires btw.
My OEM street tires are very audiable as you can hear in the video I just needed to stop freaking out and thinking I'm going to spin every time I heard them. Once I was comfortable with tires slipping it became much more enjoyable. Rain sessions really helped to understand what's going on at slower speeds.
Here are my 2 cents looking back at my experience:
- Good idea to get in GT3 seats, rollbar and harness. This impacts "daily use" significantly but it is the best investment you can make if the car sees the track regularly. I added these items after I got the car as first upgrade.
- My car came with PSS9, RS sway bars and I replaced the front A-arm bushings with Walrod. For an occasional DE car, this is a very nice setup and can be driven very fast with R-compound tires like NT01s
- The upgrade that I should have done earlier is to add a second oil cooler (Carnewal GT kit). It is amazing how much more effective the cooling is, even in Texas summer heat.
- Get some better pads at least for the front. The big reds are very capable and I really like Ferrodo DS2500 pads.
- While I really like the NT01s (245 front and 275 rear), I am really enjoying the car when I went back to good street tires a couple of times recently. I suggest you get a second set of rims for the NT01s. NT01s are just dangerous on the street if you need to drive a longer distance to the track. I am now on my second set of RE11 and they are a great multi purpose tire and give me piece of mind if there is rain in the forecast.
Pretty much what I'm doing.
GT3 seats was the first thing. Roll bar and harnesses will go in this winter.
The car runs pretty cool, but I will monitor the oil temps. The only time it reached the 2nd mark was at poconos with a lot of 2nd gear turns and only one real straight.
Using pagid yellows and motul 600 fluid. The OEM worked great but wears out too quickly.
NT01s will be carried to the track on separate wheels.
So here is what my tires looks like after 7 track days and about 4k mixed miles on the rears. The fronts I picked up used from another RLer, the probable have similar number of miles.
how bad is the shoulder wear? not surprising to go through a set of tires after 18 days, they have to wear out eventually..
edit, posted just as you were adding photos. Not the end of the world, considering that much run time on stock car w/ street tires but agree that a bit more camber would be a good idea. How's the inner tread wear? Maybe a bit more pressure but a more track oriented tire like the Nitto will hold up better & let you focus on driving.
11-06-2015, 11:13 PM
