golfnutintib

So my new-again-to-me '97 993 C2S was delivered to me today. Seeing the car in the flesh, I quite like the stance - the car has clearly been lowered from stock.

I took it to an indie and put it on their lift and we saw that the car is currently fitted with H&R lowering springs and HD Bilstein shocks. Ride height is slightly lower than ROW height.

Driving the car around casually today I would say the car feels a little springy and loose but rides quite comfortably...but it has been 6 years since I drove my old 993 and in the meanwhile I have been driving 997s, 987's and 991 GT3s, so they are of course much tighter, firmer cars than a stock 993 Carrera 2S ever was... my butt-meter has definitely been recalibrated in a big way in the intervening period.

My question to RL 993 owners is -- for spirited road driving (not tracking, not commuting), would going to true coilovers like the Bilstein PSS9/10 kit result in a marked handling improvement over my current lowering spring/Bilstein HD set up? Cosmetically I think the current stance/setup looks spot on to my eye... but I would think hard about upgrading to PSS9/10's if in fact it would be a significant handling upgrade.

Thanks in advance for your further input.

phoneyman

Without tracking the car, I would focus on other areas of the suspension to upgrade, like anti roll bars, lots of places for new bushings, adjustable drop links, etc. A lot of people will say get coilovers because "those are the best" but if your HD shocks are still in fine working order, id look elsewhere to get cornering performance.

golfnutintib

thanks hopefully bill verberg will chime in as well!

Mark Harris

I've had both on my 993 and cannot tell a difference. Had HD's w) H&R springs and went to PSS9's due to typically american logic that if he costs more it must be better. I had a fatter sway initially. You might start with items like sways, etc. that the previous poster suggested. Interesting comments between the 993 and newer Pcars. I have 997.2 that is soft and floaty compared to my 993 on PSS 9's. I feel much more confident driving my 993 at limits than I do the water pumper. When I can scrape some dough together I will put Bilsteins on the 997.2.

ilko

The main difference on street-only driven cars is the ability to adjust the PSS10 to your likeness in terms of firmness. On track you will notice a difference but the PSS10 isn't a hardcore track set up anyway.

Spyder_Man

I'd look into thicker sway bars and elephant racing sport hardness bushings, rather than replacing the struts for minor improvement. Add in camber plates and a front strut tower brace too and you'll notice it firming up.

How recently has it been aligned? What other sorts of suspension bits are upgrades are currently on the car?

golfnutintib

thanks all for advice, which must be solid as it is pretty consistent!

car is stock other than pretty fresh h&r lowering springs and bilsteins

will do a front sway bar and refresh with walrod bushings as first step, feel how she drives then...certainly cheaper than going pss10!

car drives and tracks well in highway driving, but it is going for a tire rotation and alignment soon

RonCT

Ever see Ronin? Think of the scene where Sean Bean asks Bob D "So, what piece do you like?" and Bob says "it's just a tool, I use whatever..." Point being, enjoy the car, get to know it and after a few thousand miles of spirited driving decide whether it's worth it do change anything.

I've been through pretty much everything and on the track (mostly Watkins Glen and Lime Rock) and no matter what car / suspension set up I drove hard and got the most out of each configuration. In one of my cars (07 C2S) I changed out the whole suspension and the car wasn't really much better. And that was at 9/10ths (solo advanced / instructor).

My current car is a 97 C2S and I haven't even bothered yet to change from stock. I did buy ROW springs and Koni FSD and will get those done one of these days.

Ron

RocketJohn

Three years on my PSS10s and no regrets. Simply awesome.

Carmen214

I just installed PSS10's on my '95 and I'm very pleased with them! The adjustability is a feature I've made use of to dial them in to my local roads and my handling preference. The car is greatly more responsive and the improved feedback provides a more secure feeling when pushing it on the back roads. I also like the option to be able to firm them up if I happen to do a DE event.

You mention having a springy feeling. It's a vague description but it sounds like you want more dampening control and/or adjustability than being concerned about excess body roll. I left my stock ARB's to start and I think they are fine (at least for me). Your car looks great.

MarinS4

Don't confuse "coilover" with some racy pedigree. The PSS10's allow you to tune the ride to your tastes. Both height and dampening.

Edward

You don't have to track the car to be able to appreciate the adjustability of the PSS9/10s. Nor does one "have" to adjust them after initially set. The beauty of these Bilsteins, as I see it, is the ability to adjust them to suit one's own personal driving preference taste and local roads. Once you arrive at a setting that works, it's set; leave it and enjoy. No knock on the HDs, but no ability to fine tune is the reason they're less expensive.

Edward

KeninBlaine

Well stated. This is why I decided to go with the PSS10's for me, which I'll have installed within the next month or so. I considered other less expensive options to deal with my worn out Monroes, but liked the ability to get the right height and set the best damping rate to suit me. I had Damptronics on my last 997.1 and really liked them. I was able to lower the car only 3/4", which gave it the look and stance I liked without the drawbacks of front bumper conflicts with it being even lower using lowering springs.

JB 911

Another thing to consider is the spring rate that comes with the coilover kits. It's not often discussed, but I feel it is going to have an input in final ride also. I've not found a great thread on rennlist. THese numbers where taken from Pistonheads.

M033 145, 217
M030 is 165 285
993 Turbo 165 314
Bilstein PSS10 220 380
993 RS 245 456
KW Variant 3 171 513
KW Clubsport 340 625

Disclaimer - my comments about ride quality are all re driving on road context, not track. (The op was pretty clear to state that use, also.)

Note how high the front spring rates of the pss are. I think this is why some describe them as harsh on mediocre roads - especially on a lighter c2.

If I was in the market for a new coilover set, I'd seriously consider the KW3's. Note their front rate is closer to oem turbo spring. The kw3 are also adjustable in both compression and rebound. The few people I've talked to with the KW3 have said they liked them better than the pss. But then again, there is the element everyone wants to try hard to like what they just spent $$$$ on

Knight

That is good info, I've never actually seen the spring rates on the coilover kits. One thing you should keep in mind is PSS10s have the tender spring or some call it the helper springs. These from what I understand help reduce the ride harshness.

To the OP, I think it's really challenging to get fair comparison between the 2 setups. You would literally have to get feedback from someone that actually ran H&R/HDs, then switched to a coiloverkit on the same car.

Personally I've driven a few 993s with H&R/HD combo that as you described have the springy and loose feeling, but it also could be a combination of other variables too like worn tie rods, bushings etc. Unfortunately suspension comparison is not so black/white.