JPS

Mike,
Can't be the same clay. This stuff would burn through no doubt. I'm personally scared of orbitals and abrasives. Polish is one thing, hard core abrasive is another.

jhb

I use Griot's products, and the Orbital (I did not buy THAT from Griots, that is a rip-off). I would not use the orbital to clay the car, its not that hard and requires no elbow grease. Just remember, if the bar starts to stick, not slide, put more lubricant on (Speed Shine in Griot's case). I washed, clayed, machine polished and machine waxed my car last fall and the car looked great. No problems. I will do it again this spring if it ever warms up and stops raining!

mooty

clay is mildly abrasive. i wouldn't use it every months. but once a year, i see no harm.

my method is similar to jeff993tt. my variation follows:

dawn wash.
normal car wash (what i mean is car wash soap)

clay with LOTS LOTS of lubricant. remember to knead the clay often. DON'T use pressure. just glide the clay over paint. if clay won't glide, usre MORE lubricant. do one panel at a time, keep gliding until you feel no friction b/n clay and paint, adding lubricant as needed (do it inside the garage with cool panels). when satisfied, dry the lubricant with your favorite cloth (microfiber is what i prefer).

i don't rewash again like jeff after clay b/c i use griot's speed shine, not soap as lube. if you used soap as lube, i would wash car again.

dry eveything and use 3M imperial glaze if yove swirl marks (face it, we all got swirls), needs a bit of elbow grease.

then follow with two coats of P21S cleanser. front to back motion not circular, read direction on bottle. less elblelbow grease then 3M imperial glaze.

follow by 2 more coats of P21S carnuba. very easy, no elbow grease needed. (note: i wax my car other weekend, just the wax part, i am carzy, not insane) but if you dont' wax so often but drive lots, use grand blitz wax as it last longer.

FWIW, super expensive zymol, griots carnuba, griots show was, p21S are about the same in reflection and sheen. i used zaino bro as well. very nice shine, but it's a different sheen then wax. i prefer wax over zaino, but zaino is good too. sorry it got so long, email me if you got Q's.

PS, my car is arctic silver.
everything is hand applied, no orbitals.

i would not use orbital with clay.
you want to get into the nooks and crannies. if you look at griot's attachment, you will not be able to do the detailed parts with it. further, it really takes no effort/no hand pressure to clay. do it by hand.

GTR 993

No problems just make sure you continually rework the clay and make sure it didn't pick up any rocks are hard materials to avoid scratching the car. If you use a lot of spray it will be fine. You will also be amazed how much grime will come off.

Jeff 993TT

John, can you come over and help me with my car too?

Chris C.

I have used the Griots clay and orbital buffer attachment (and lots of speed shine) twice with zero ill effects. Don't know why you guys think it's abrasive or causes damage...it's fine with normal buffing pressure, and much faster than by hand.

Mdrury

My black car is hideously difficult to keep clean ( live in Pollen Central aka Santa Cruz ), but I've been really impressed with results using Griot's clay bar and Speedshine. Ditto those comments on dumping a dropped bar, using lots of the lube, doing it by hand, etc., etc. I am not **** about this stuff ( i'm not! ) but with minimal effort the results seem to impress those who are.

DrZ

Mooty, I really like P21S systems. No longer bothering with Klasse routine as I live in SoCal and car stays in garage a lot. I think results short of durability are comparable-maybe a little edge to the wax for quality of shine.

Tip learned from Autopia.org: S100 is the SAME formula as PS21 at about 60% of cost. Get some quickly at the local Harley dealer- they are "changing " the formula(packaging!) on S100 and of course raising the price!

RJT

Here's one more testimony....I've used clay for about 4 years on black, red and silver paint.
Run your hand over the fender before you use clay and then after. It's really a dramatic difference and without any effort! I have tried 3 different brands of clay and I honestly don't see any difference between them. I now use Griot's Garage products exclusively. Speed Shine is great. Best of Show wax lasts longer than other products I've tried, and I think i've done them all with the exception of Zaino.
Just don't be afraid you're going to damage the paint. AS others have stated just use lots of lubricant and get ready to smile!

mick

Had the same concerns you do and found it was much easier than expected. Only recommendation is that you use plenty of whatever lubrication you plan to use. I think Zaino recommends their spray. I did not use Zaino, but used a similar product. I kept the paint very wet. Turned out fantastic. Go for it. mick

A.J. - 95 993

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RJT 993:
<strong>Best of Show wax lasts longer than other products I've tried, and I think i've done them all with the exception of Zaino.
Just don't be afraid you're going to damage the paint. AS others have stated just use lots of lubricant and get ready to smile!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I tried the Best of Show wax once, because I thought it would save me time over Zaino. Zaino says to wash after claying, and I was trying to work more quickly. My sister-in-law tried Griots wax once and gave it to me. She hated it, said it was impossible to remove. I figured she put too much on, or did something wrong. She was right. The sun was going down, so my light soure was dimming. And the wax was NOT coming off. I applied with the Griot's orbital (yeah, you can buy it for lots less elsewhere, but I was interested in the lifetime 100% guarantee) and the red pad. I applied a very thin coat, and was using the Groit's microfiber towel (which, nobody has mentioned up to now. Those things are worth their weight gold. Love 'em, would never use anything else). I thought I was so screwed. But a light spritz with Speed Shine gave just the right friction, and I was able to remove the wax residue. The Zaino is so much quicker, I haven't used the Griots wax since.

I've used the clay with the clay holder on the orbital. After throwing the clay on the ground twice, I quit using the orbital. But I use the holder by hand. That thing is REAL slick to use manually. The first time I tried using clay, I used my hands. I caused such a mess I swore I was going to return it. It got all over my hands, and all over everything I touched. I had to use 3M adhesive cleaner to remove it from my fingers! I tried wearing gloves, and that wasn't much better. And 'ol Richard Groit advertises that he has never had any clay returned. I was going to be the first, and was drafting my letter in my head in fury. Until I did a side-by-side comparison with the 3M Imperial Hand Glaze (which I've been using for years). They are not meant to do the same thing, so it's an apples/oranges comparison. But I do use 3M as a paint prep before waxing, and I wanted to compare. I was amazed - the paint is so much smoother - almost "soft" - with the clay. I relented, and tried to come up with a more user friendly way to use it. The clay holder is just the thing, because you only touch the clay to knead it. There's also a plastic backing, which the clay sticks to to stay in place. It's just that the spinning orbital overcomes this, and likes to toss the clay on the ground when doing vertical surfaces. Using the clay is so fast, though, the orbital is unnecessary even if it did work well. The only downside to using the clay holder is for the people who like to tear off small pieces of clay and throw them away. This is designed to use the whole piece at once. The best feature of the clay holder is the foam edges. This helps soak up some of the speed shine, so if you get into a dry area, it moistens the surface before the clay gets there. It also helps to maintain light pressure on the paint. For clay, it's the only way to go.

By the way, no affiliations, blah blah blah. I have started my own detail business on the side, though, so I have been getting lots of experience using this stuff. Griots and Zaino are my products of choice. I use the Griot's orbital and red pad when applying Zaino with the ZFX. Last night I applied a coat to the 911 in about 15 minutes (not including time to wash and dry). I buffed it off this morning before going to work. Took another 10 min. I know the purists would be shrieking in horror over this, but it is do-able with excellent results.

pjc

Interesting that some guys seem to clay regularly - once a year? This seems excessive to me, surely once the paintwork is "cleaned up" other products should take over to retain the finish? or is this being nieve?

I've not used clay (the finish on my 993 is like glass without) but I have seen it demonstrated.

PJC

mooty

aj, yes, griot's best of show wax is very difficult to wipe off. silver bullet and pin can attest to the speed in which i can put a coat of wax on and off (maybe faster than your orbital) but with that best of show, it's very tough. i like griot's carnuba. it's much kinder to your arms.

i also used zaino and klasse. zaino produces a very nice shine. but it's a very differnet type of shine than wax and the paint also feels different then wax. personally i prefer the finish produced by carnuba. i am not saying one's better than the other, just that i like wax more.

about claying. i have been told that clay is meant for overspray and is abrasive to paint. thus at this point, i only use it about 1 or 2 times a year. but, FWIW, when i had my bmw's i would clay them every month. my M coupe must gotten clay some 40 times and i see no deterioration in paint at all.

SteveL1

If you were going to be in St. Louis this weekend you could learn how easy clay bars are to work with at the PCA/BMW club Detailing Tips & Tricks event on Saturday. For those in the St. Louis area, it's being held at the Dent Wizard facility in Earth City from 10:00 to 3:00.

One tip, like an earlier poster said, is to cut the bar into a bunch of samll pieces. Flatten them out to about the size of a quarter or half dollar. Use each side untill you see some residue and then pitch in the trash. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use a piece that has fallen on the ground. It will pick up ANY tiny piece of grit it comes in contact with and immediatly put scratches in your finish. Use LOTS of lube and have fun. You should be able to do the whole car in an hour or less.