APEXHNTR

Hello fellow Rennlist enthusiasts of the 993 persuasion. Perhaps some fellow members may have run into this situation or have suggestions regarding A/C hoses to be used in a restoration of a 1996 C2. The A/C work is a followup to a complete engine rebuild.

Presently the entire engine 3.8L is complete with all the external cases and parts vaperblasted and replated in yellow zinc. The engine is back in the car and runs perfect.

The last item was to reinstall the A/C unit. A brand new A/C compressor was located. All the mounting hardware was either replaced with new Porsche parts or original parts refinished to original appearance.

The remaining items…. the A/C hoses part #s

993.573.097.03
993.573.099.03

..are the issue.

These were ordered from Germany 3 months ago based on my VIN number.
The wrong ones were sent first. The 964 and early 993 hoses are numbered
.00 rather than.03. They don't run over the fan like the later 993s (later=.03).

More recently, the correct part numbered hoses arrived but they are not suited for a concours type restoration as they do not look original.

1) Only one hose is wrapped in cloth the other is smooth rubber like a garden hose.
2) The words "Bridgestone" have been added but do not appear on the original hoses.

I have called dealers all over North America trying to find earlier style A/C hoses without any luck so far. The dealers say the hoses must come from Germany.

My next move is to take a spare set of used 964/early 993 hoses to my vapor honing shop to see if we can refinish the crimp connections and fittings and not damage the rubber. If that works then I'll just restore the original hoses rather than put on "new" hoses from Porsche that don't look right! That may be the best solution for now.

Does "Porsche Classic" restore 993s? If so what A/C hoses are they using? It is hard to imagine a restoration coming from "PC" with hoses that say "Bridgestone"

Any advice, suggestions or encouragement is appreciated-thanks APEXHNTR

johnireland

I would definitely check with Porsche Classic. And you might have to consider making the argument that with replacable rubber parts, functional utility from the factory source should be permitted and primary over literal originality. I know it is a gray area...but even vintage Bugattis gets new parts from their vintage factory source, and I'm sure they are made to modern standards.

axl911

Check on ebay. I bought a set of pristine later AC style hose for a very good price!!

David A

Is it this one?

http://griffiths.com/porsche/air-con...barrier-hoses/

griffiths

John raised a good point. When an OEM changes their sources or materials, and the end product is still label 'original', or blessed by "P" in this case, whom is to say what is "original". P typically maintains long term relationships with its suppliers, however things change sooner or later.

A reasonable Judge should be able to rationalize between Originality and Authenticity; your side of the debate can suggest the new hoses are authentic and because of obsolescence of material, or a switch from xxxxx company to Bridgestone, the original source "P" makes them acceptable. A savvy Judge would not waste time pondering the obvious; for example if the vehicle originally came equipped with a particular brand and model of tire 50 years ago and the product was discontinued or the OEM found it necessary to switch suppliers or design.

Years back we were remanufacturing all of P's power steering products when they were in Reno. Occasionally a car owner would contact us asking about 'originality'. Our process used a different plating on the steel parts; it lasted longer, and we made a few minor changes inside. P was happy about this as well as the end user. A Judge could not tell the difference visually.

When it comes to AC hoses, going back to the earlier air cooled, the hoses had a fabric wrap. Today, AC hoses as well as many other types of hose, have discarded the fabric wrap concept for various reasons: costs, weight, exterior surface absorption, non barrier vs. barrier, etc.

http://griffiths.com/porsche/air-conditioning/964-993/

APEXHNTR

Thanks for the excellent feedback from all those who responded.

The A/C lines on ebay are about the same condition as the existing lines on the car so picking up a new set wound be an option if I wanted to try different restoration methods. A backup set but not anything needed just yet.

Griffiths is unfortunately not an option due to the fact that their upgraded lines are only available for the 1995 and earlier cars. When I called them a couple weeks ago they said that they have no plans to make the barrier type lines for the 1996-1998 993 models.

The debate as to whether a "P" part is still a Porsche part.

Over time, with parts being superseded, the use of newer parts is very subjective. Yes, the part is from the manufacturer... but is it a likeness that is indistinguishable from the "Old Stock" part. That is where some may say it's "ok" to use the newer part. Tires for instance would fall into that category. Very few 993 owners would want period correct tires on their cars.

On the other side of the coin. If you were going to change out your 993 windshield. You would probably pay more to have the "Sigla" glass your car came with.

With these hoses. The small hose looks stock (..097.003 Part). So it was fine, but where does that leave the "Bridgestone" labeled large hose?

I came to this conclusion. The best option was to restore the big hose so that it closely resembles the small hose. That way I felt I could retain the original appearance and still make them appear like new. How... "Vapor Honing" was what we used. Very fine glass beads like powder. It cleaned the AL- but would not damage cloth or rubber.

It worked really well. I had a set of 964 hoses we used as a test to see if there would be any damage. They came out perfect. So we did the big hose yesterday (even the date code on the cloth was left intact). Here are some pictures. I'll update when we get a bit further along. Johnathon's web address is below.

Contact info:www.vaporhoningtechnologies.com

griffiths

Sort of..... At this time we supply engine compartment barrier hose sets for 1989-1994; 964 non turbo models. 1995 we consider to be the 993.

Not exactly..... At this time we do not offer hoses for the "turbo" cars nor the 993.
However, as time moves forward and more vehicles are in need of replacement hoses, we will.

I'm sorry we could not help you with your sourcing. As I recall you specifically wanted 'fabric' covered hoses because you are after a concours d'elegance look.

I believe initially Porsche was using "conti" as their source for the hose assemblies. And, as noted OEM's do change their sources.

APEXHNTR

Thanks for the clarification as to which lines are available and the possibility of offering additional lines in the future. Now may be a good time to consider offering a stock cloth covered line as Porsche has not come through with anything close to the original.

Still waiting to hear back from Porsche Classic….will let folks know what happens.

JB 911

That turned out really nice. Out of curiosity, did the new ones from Porsche (even though the hose itself didn't match) have the same zinced crimped connectors as the original? Or had that fitting been changed too?

I re-zinced a few pieces to just freshen up my engine bay, and that crimped connector was one that obviously was not going to get done.

pp000830

The hose may have changed to provide compatibility with the newer refrigerent. One came from new-old stock and the other recently fabricated.