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Results of Regearing a 1996 C2 using Guard's 3.500 1st gear on new mainsheet
I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for the their help in my re-gearing project. You all are a bunch of enablers. I slid down the slope in a hard hard way!
Ok so I thought I’d give my impressions – hopefully others will find this useful, just as I have found the information provided by others in this forum so useful -
I started out with a 52K mile standard USA G50/20 gearbox. Open Diff. The 1st to 2nd gap was too long — always felt like I was falling off the power band, no matter how high I revved first gear. Furthermore, I found first gear to be too short — it was really annoying using 1st for any sort of engine braking up and down the San Francisco hills because the motor always felt like it was puking it guts out … especially when hitting a bump down a hill with first which would cause mild driveline seesaw whiplash in a too-short-first.
6th gear I felt was too long as well.
I drive almost 100% on the street – pleasure Sunday driving — mostly on lower speed curvy roads in Northern California – Skyline Blvd, Hwy 1 in Marin, etc.
I got the gearbox redone by Bill Rader Motorsport in Las Vegas (big plug for Bill – so easy to work with and super responsive and fast) and Matt @ Guard Transmission provided a new mainshaft and gears 1-5. The ratios are below in the charts. Gear 6 is a Porsche gear - 996 GT3 gear I think. I also have to say that Matt was super patient and accommodating. When there was a shortage of quill shafts, he expedited one from the heat-treat facility in Australia for next –day delivery — massive service. Expediting a heat-treat-volume of just one-piece is a big deal in manufacturing.
The result is that the car is wonderfully charismatic to drive. Every gear shift is RIGHT THERE – grab another gear and you’re right there in the power band. The character of the car has been massively improved. The gear whine from 1-4 is very mild. Quite pleasant. I quite like it. Gear 5 is louder, but by that time road noise has caught up, and Gear 6, being a Porsche gear, is dead quiet.
I’d totally do this again —— again the car is vastly transformed. It is so pleasant to row through the gears — bam bam bam bam — and you’re already at “go to jail speed”. I struggled for months to decide the optimal ratios for the gear stack (you can see all the data I compiled below) and I think this is just perfect. The car is not “50 hp faster” as I think is the “conventional wisdom”..... Because what exactly does 50 hp feel like...we feel torque ......I would say that thrust is about 15% more in gears 2-6 (which is about right because they are that much shorter in stock) but that the car is so eager, so willing, straining against its leash to shift shift shift shift go go go GO that the car is much more fun. WAY more fun.
Total costs? Absurd – but again, these are all playthings. There’s no ROI in a financial sense. Only ROI in a “fun sense”. If I wanted ROI I’d be looking at high growth rate companies or companies with OM of 35% or steady 10 year balanced equity net returns of 7%-8%, etc.
The total gearbox parts and labor ran 11K. I added a Torque Biasing Differential so that ended up being 13K.
Engine/Trans drop was extra —— I had everything else done like new Dual Mass Flywheel (I don’t like the box-of-marbles-effect of other lighter flywheels) — crank seals, timing chain gasket, upper and lower valve covers, power steering belt, etc etc etc. ad naseum.
Awesome! I knew you would agree it is a truly transformational result. Massive congratulations. FWIW mine was the same in termd of cost. Absurd yes but if like me you plan to keep the car a very long time...so worth it.
Interesting report and great data to back up your experiences. I look forward to finally meeting you and your car in person. So with the new gears when cruising around town are you able to stay in 1st most of the time (say up to 35 mph)?
The OEM 1st gear in the 993 transmission really does drive me nuts. If I ever have to downshift to 1st (say for gridlock traffic on the freeway), I basically have to come to a full stop and then down shift, which I hate. Driving in 2nd in such conditions often lugs the engine too much. There is a huge hole in the gearing there.
Now to find $10k of spare change under the sofa cushions...
Interesting report and great data to back up your experiences. I look forward to finally meeting you and your car in person. So with the new gears when cruising around town are you able to stay in 1st most of the time (say up to 35 mph)?
Absolutely we will have to meet ... Soon!
I don't know if I would leave the car in 1st tooling around town at 35mph though .... But certainly I don't need to come to a complete stop to shift into first.
the 993 Forum, for me anyway, in recent memory....note, my memory isn't all that good. For those considering a re-gear, stop considering it, and just do it. I realize the expense is a factor, but the "Grin Factor" will far surpass your recall of the expense very quickly, if not immediately, after your first drive in the car with the new box.
Once I had it done, following the example set by CupCar, Jordon, and others, advice from Steve Weiner, Bill Verburg and others, and incessant prodding by Brent Smith in San Luis Obispo, CA, I kicked myself in the butt for not having done this years ago. Brent told me, that gears would "wake the car up", and he was so right on with this advice.
My gear box was built for me by Lance Aspesi, a 1 man shop in Van Nuys. Used stock 1st and 2nd...personally these Porsche 993 stock gear ratios are fine for me..and pretty much custom gears 3rd through 6th. He stayed away from the common practice of making stock 5th gear the new 6th gear. Lance went through the box with a fine toothed comb, replacing any and all misc. parts as needed. Of course I had to have steel synchros and forged 1-2, 3-4 shifting forks....that drove the cost up a bit, and a new clutch "while you are in there". I already had the ANDIAL LWF.
Now it shifts like the proverbial "hot knife through butter"...no regrets, nada, 0. Best mod I have ever done. Expensive, yes...worth it? Absolutely!!!
Its nice to see most of the relevant data in one post instead of re-searching thru all the previous ones. Have this bookmarked for when I get serious about a re-gear.
Also congrats on getting yours done. Thanks for the post.
Completely agree with OP. I re-geared with Steve Weiner's help and Brian Kopans on my previous car (now Juha's project foundation!). The car was transformed. Now, however, it will REALLY be transformed
If not then who should be able to help me find the right man south of the border. I am situated in the East.
C2Sideways --- It is probably as easy as giving Matt Monson (Guard Transmission) a call. He manufactures the gears and a bunch of gearbox specialists will stuff your G50 w/ the gears ---- (like those mentioned above, Brian Copans, Bill Rader, Steve Weiner, etc.).
I bet Matt has a rolodex full of good folks ..... some are probably near you.
Seriously --- anybody thinking about doing a regear - Martin S, OS993, Jordan, etc. ... they are all totally right. Do it now and don't worry about the money. You can always make more. The gearbox regear is anywhere from 1/4 - 1/2 the price of the car (depending on whether or not you do a custom 1st gear w/ new mainshaft which is >2K) ----- but really, you bought the car as a plaything anyways. Just do it. You won't regret it.
Jlaa, Thanks so much for the great writeup and including me in your chart. I have the gears, but am waiting on the manufacture of the MWF because I want to pull my box one time and do the clutch and all the "while you are in there" stuff you list. And yes, it is a 95 C4 with G64/20 US Model. Your ratios are almost exactly what I will have so it is exciting for me to hear a preview. I know my 1st is different, but all the other ratios are very close. FYI my 1st is also 997 GT3 ratio and main shaft. It just happens to be the same ratio as stock G20. I am intrigued by your choice of 1st, but for where I drive the stock 1st is fine, it is just second that kills me if I need to stay in the power band on the 1-2 shift. Thanks again! Love seeing the charts. Mike
The gears in MY head have been turning around over this mod today and i wondered if some ratios suit a non-varioram car more than varioram due to torque and where in the rev range it starts to pull again instead of been off the cam. Mine is a '95 and choosing the ratios seems a very tricky and costly exercise. Any advice for someone who is entering into the wacky world of Re-gear.
One other thing, what is the advantage of a Torque Biasing Differential over that of one with clutch packs (LSD). Was this supplied through Guard too ?
03-07-2015, 12:33 PM
Results of Regearing a 1996 C2 using Guard's 3.500 1st gear on new mainsheet
One of the most helpful posts ever on...
haha thanks man.
