View Poll Results: Do you track your 993?
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So - How many of us track our 993's?
10-14-2014, 12:48 AM
#46
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What Martin said!
*** Only for emissions testing, and that is only when I have put the stock cat on and am going in for the car's emissions testing. The car is insured for the street. The only "illegal" aspect I suppose, no air bags and no stock seat belts.
The 996 should be faster….DOHC, VarioRam, VarioCam, water cooled, but I don't want one, never will, they are soul-less IMHO. And they have a terrible reputation for "grenading" their motors.
993 is clearly old school…to make them go really fast, you have to drive the wheels off them, or so I am told, or as rumor has it.
A few years back I had the opportunity to drive a friends nearly stock 993 on the track, it has Bilsteiin HDs and anti-roll bars, that's it. I couldn't believe how well it handled…it did everything right.
My point, you can easily throw $25,000 + at the car for all sorts of trick stuff. Don't ask me how I know this
For all this investment, the car is quicker, corners a bit better, than stock…and some might wonder, was it worth it?. Well it is/was for me and I enjoy the hell out of my 993 track car. Wouldn't change a thing.
The 996 should be faster….DOHC, VarioRam, VarioCam, water cooled, but I don't want one, never will, they are soul-less IMHO. And they have a terrible reputation for "grenading" their motors.
993 is clearly old school…to make them go really fast, you have to drive the wheels off them, or so I am told, or as rumor has it.
A few years back I had the opportunity to drive a friends nearly stock 993 on the track, it has Bilsteiin HDs and anti-roll bars, that's it. I couldn't believe how well it handled…it did everything right.
My point, you can easily throw $25,000 + at the car for all sorts of trick stuff. Don't ask me how I know this
For all this investment, the car is quicker, corners a bit better, than stock…and some might wonder, was it worth it?. Well it is/was for me and I enjoy the hell out of my 993 track car. Wouldn't change a thing.I've poured stupid sums into my beloved, flood titled 993 and I don't regret a penny of it. I track the car as often as my schedule allows and drive it as hard as my talent (or lack thereof) will permit. The car just has soul and loves to be driven.
One of the greatest joys for me is learning to trust in and "listen" to the car. Our 993's are great teachers and I still have a lot to learn. As long as that continues, I'll keep at it.
It's funny, I do mostly HPDEs and open track days and I'm usually the only guy there with an air cooled car (and, unless the Miatas are there, usually among the slowest). People are constantly coming up to me and telling me how great these cars are, that they love seeing (and hearing it) on track, and that they wished they had one. I don't get it; most of these guys are driving new, computer controlled, 400 hp cars that cost multiples of what a nice 993 costs. Hmmm...
They may pass me on the straights, but can they see me smile as they go by?...
Whatever you do with your 993, have fun!
10-14-2014, 02:22 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
My sentiments exactly Ken. Heading to my second beginner DE weekend event in a few weeks. My goal is to learn to drive the proper line and understand the handling characteristics of my 993 with an instructor in the passenger seat to guide me. I may get signed off for "solo". And then I may never take the 993 to the track again. (Or then again, maybe I will.) But I will be a better driver and know at what speed what the 993 can be reasonably driven by me on a twisty road and still stay on the tarmac. The limits of this little car are too high to safely learn on a public street.
10-14-2014, 11:59 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
I use to track my 993 with the local high end clubs. Unlike NASA the field was mellow and I felt safe putting my car out there. As I started to progress in speed I found myself wanting more safety and track specific mods. When I considered the cost of Motons/Cage/monoballs etc and the degradation of street manners I knew it was time for something else. I was impressed when I drove a spec Miata. I thought one of these with some more HP would be just the ticket. The clincher was when I priced out repair parts vs the 993.
I have been known to get a bit OCD during a build. The Miata was no different. I am all in for under 30k. (was 23k till I opted for a build forged motor). It weights 1,950lbs and makes 300whp. Runs on E85 ($3.25 per gallon), Brake pads are $125. Hoosier slicks are $1,200 a set, used trans $800. These are old pics. The car is painted flat black now. You will see me running time trials with NASA at Sonoma most of the time.
Best run to date is a 1:41.6 at Sonoma (aka Infineon) with my friend Dean Thomas driving.
The Miata is soooo neutral in handling. It really teaches you great driving skills. With anything north of 250hp they are track monsters.
I have been known to get a bit OCD during a build. The Miata was no different. I am all in for under 30k. (was 23k till I opted for a build forged motor). It weights 1,950lbs and makes 300whp. Runs on E85 ($3.25 per gallon), Brake pads are $125. Hoosier slicks are $1,200 a set, used trans $800. These are old pics. The car is painted flat black now. You will see me running time trials with NASA at Sonoma most of the time.
Best run to date is a 1:41.6 at Sonoma (aka Infineon) with my friend Dean Thomas driving.
The Miata is soooo neutral in handling. It really teaches you great driving skills. With anything north of 250hp they are track monsters.
10-14-2014, 02:05 PM
#51
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Ohh man, I saw that race. I must be getting old.
That weekend at Elkhart, Ford gave all the workers and volunteers Mustang GTP hats. Very cool, but never managed to score one.
Oops -- back to our topic -- Miatas as race cars.... I mean tracking our 993s
That weekend at Elkhart, Ford gave all the workers and volunteers Mustang GTP hats. Very cool, but never managed to score one.
Oops -- back to our topic -- Miatas as race cars.... I mean tracking our 993s
10-14-2014, 03:28 PM
#53
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I prefer to dance (HPDE) with the one I fell for (993), not the latest best dancer (which changes yearly), as my HPDE skills have yet to reach the full capabilities of the car (993), so it is all smiles per mile.
At HPDE's there can always be someone more talented , someone more experienced, and someone who can write bigger checks for newer / "better" toys.
At HPDE's the goal should be safe fun, measuring yourself and your car against yourself, not those around you. And as Ken mentioned, finding a hot shoe to base line your car at your home track and confirm your set up is not contributing to bad habits.
Hope to see more 993s at HPDE track events.
At HPDE's there can always be someone more talented , someone more experienced, and someone who can write bigger checks for newer / "better" toys.
At HPDE's the goal should be safe fun, measuring yourself and your car against yourself, not those around you. And as Ken mentioned, finding a hot shoe to base line your car at your home track and confirm your set up is not contributing to bad habits.
Hope to see more 993s at HPDE track events.
10-14-2014, 04:14 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
As others have said with regard to "hurting" your car... If you've never done a DE, go, take your 993 out a couple of times... If you get hooked and want to start getting closer to 10/10th.. Then you need to evaluate your appetite for risk is and how safe you feel in a street car.
10-14-2014, 07:53 PM
#55
I started DEs with a 993 convertible. I good buddy needed to convince me because I was in the "never ever" category. It was so much joy for me to really learn what I can do with this car in a safe environment and the learning curve was steep!
After I got hooked I did not want to get a roll bar into it and looked for another car. I looked at 996 and 986 and ended up with a nicely modded 993 C4S, that I "stole" from a rennlister 5 years ago ...
I am enjoying every minute on the track with it because it gives me a pleasure in a safe environment that I could never get in public traffic. BTW, I had my biggest incident on public streets when I can into a full spare wheel on a highway with no chance to safely drive around it ...
After I got hooked I did not want to get a roll bar into it and looked for another car. I looked at 996 and 986 and ended up with a nicely modded 993 C4S, that I "stole" from a rennlister 5 years ago ...
I am enjoying every minute on the track with it because it gives me a pleasure in a safe environment that I could never get in public traffic. BTW, I had my biggest incident on public streets when I can into a full spare wheel on a highway with no chance to safely drive around it ...
10-15-2014, 02:48 PM
#56
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Well said.. I think that get lost a lot....
As others have said with regard to "hurting" your car... If you've never done a DE, go, take your 993 out a couple of times... If you get hooked and want to start getting closer to 10/10th.. Then you need to evaluate your appetite for risk is and how safe you feel in a street car.
As others have said with regard to "hurting" your car... If you've never done a DE, go, take your 993 out a couple of times... If you get hooked and want to start getting closer to 10/10th.. Then you need to evaluate your appetite for risk is and how safe you feel in a street car.
And as others have mentioned, she will still turns heads in the paddock.
10-15-2014, 07:11 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
[QUOTE=race911;11722548][Quote]Oops -- back to our topic -- Miatas as race cars.... I mean tracking our 993s
Ken I must have forgotten that one - classic - do you know the GT3 driver?
Curious as to what exactly they thought they were doing.
When you see corner entry AND exit speed differential that severe, compared to a much more capable platform, it starts to get needlessly dangerous. Just my opinion.
Unless you've pre agreed with a buddy to play a game of "You drive the really fast car slowly and in my way for 10 laps because I like cleaning rubber off my hood"...
We don't really see that much in the DE group I run with. Then again, I am the slow guy.
Curious as to what exactly they thought they were doing.
When you see corner entry AND exit speed differential that severe, compared to a much more capable platform, it starts to get needlessly dangerous. Just my opinion.
Unless you've pre agreed with a buddy to play a game of "You drive the really fast car slowly and in my way for 10 laps because I like cleaning rubber off my hood"...
We don't really see that much in the DE group I run with. Then again, I am the slow guy.
10-15-2014, 10:38 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
^
This is a perfect example of a someone thinking that putting a distance between you and another car on the straight means you are faster. I have not run DE with any PCA region that tolerates this kind of lack of on-track awareness.
Things could happen on track, as they can off track. However, having (actually, my better half does) a 964 with 100XXX and a 993 race car, we obviously love to drive these cars as they were build to do.
This is a perfect example of a someone thinking that putting a distance between you and another car on the straight means you are faster. I have not run DE with any PCA region that tolerates this kind of lack of on-track awareness.
Things could happen on track, as they can off track. However, having (actually, my better half does) a 964 with 100XXX and a 993 race car, we obviously love to drive these cars as they were build to do.
10-15-2014, 10:46 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=Matt Lane;11726227][QUOTE=race911;11722548]
Got a couple of PM/emails on this, so here goes.
Yes, seems like there are always new guys around where I go back to Square One to explain.
1. This was a private rental day. Open track, run what you brung.
2. I'd not met Mr. 997 GT3 before that day. He was a new Thunderhill tenant a few doors down from (my former) garage.
3. Someone told him I had "700HP" in my car. Hence, he figured I'd just blow by.
4. I set this up by timing my out lap. Reason? Well........ He had Van Overbeck up with him, and earlier on I let him go between T1 and T2 in the Spec Miata. Imagine my surprise when I hung with him through T6.
5. You can see me desperately trying to warm my fronts on the out lap. These were 5 year old (but relatively new) RA1s that were a bum deal via a friend. Oh well.
6. Laps here are about 4 sec off what I did later in the day, and that was about 1 sec off the best I can do with RA1s.
7. All the gassing when I'm tucked in behind was I guess me thinking he was going to "go" off the corners. Shows you can lift throttle a "911" without ill effect.
8. The GT3 was a massaged car similar to my 993--revised gears, remote reservoir dampers, stiff springs, but street tires as he corded a slick earlier.
9. All in all, it's pretty typical of how I run. I expect maximum situational awareness, and am not afraid to set up passes. No different than in a race/qual session.
Oops -- back to our topic -- Miatas as race cars.... I mean tracking our 993s
Ken I must have forgotten that one - classic - do you know the GT3 driver?
Curious as to what exactly they thought they were doing.
When you see corner entry AND exit speed differential that severe, compared to a much more capable platform, it starts to get needlessly dangerous. Just my opinion.
Unless you've pre agreed with a buddy to play a game of "You drive the really fast car slowly and in my way for 10 laps because I like cleaning rubber off my hood"...
We don't really see that much in the DE group I run with. Then again, I am the slow guy.
Ken I must have forgotten that one - classic - do you know the GT3 driver?
Curious as to what exactly they thought they were doing.
When you see corner entry AND exit speed differential that severe, compared to a much more capable platform, it starts to get needlessly dangerous. Just my opinion.
Unless you've pre agreed with a buddy to play a game of "You drive the really fast car slowly and in my way for 10 laps because I like cleaning rubber off my hood"...
We don't really see that much in the DE group I run with. Then again, I am the slow guy.
Yes, seems like there are always new guys around where I go back to Square One to explain.
1. This was a private rental day. Open track, run what you brung.
2. I'd not met Mr. 997 GT3 before that day. He was a new Thunderhill tenant a few doors down from (my former) garage.
3. Someone told him I had "700HP" in my car. Hence, he figured I'd just blow by.
4. I set this up by timing my out lap. Reason? Well........ He had Van Overbeck up with him, and earlier on I let him go between T1 and T2 in the Spec Miata. Imagine my surprise when I hung with him through T6.
5. You can see me desperately trying to warm my fronts on the out lap. These were 5 year old (but relatively new) RA1s that were a bum deal via a friend. Oh well.
6. Laps here are about 4 sec off what I did later in the day, and that was about 1 sec off the best I can do with RA1s.
7. All the gassing when I'm tucked in behind was I guess me thinking he was going to "go" off the corners. Shows you can lift throttle a "911" without ill effect.
8. The GT3 was a massaged car similar to my 993--revised gears, remote reservoir dampers, stiff springs, but street tires as he corded a slick earlier.
9. All in all, it's pretty typical of how I run. I expect maximum situational awareness, and am not afraid to set up passes. No different than in a race/qual session.
10-15-2014, 11:02 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
And to reiterate--GT3 guy was under the mistaken belief I could blast by him any time. So he was aware of me.