speedometer tampering mystery solved?
10-11-2002, 05:51 PM
#16
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[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>I suggest you read original posts and take comment in the proper context. I have stated facts to the best of my knowlege with out flaming anyone. I have also responded privately to Laura. I think it is best to leave it at that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You impune Hergesheimer's in public, and imply that you apologized in private? Have some *****, man!
You owe the lady a public apology.
<strong>I suggest you read original posts and take comment in the proper context. I have stated facts to the best of my knowlege with out flaming anyone. I have also responded privately to Laura. I think it is best to leave it at that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You impune Hergesheimer's in public, and imply that you apologized in private? Have some *****, man!
You owe the lady a public apology.
10-11-2002, 05:53 PM
#17
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Hey guys you are just not getting it. The point to all of this is nobody documented or disclosed the speedo swap. It was missed on the PPI and a post purchase inspection. Turns out to be innocent sloppyness but could have been a lot worse. Look when you see one cockroach... I am happy that now all is explained and in order. I won't have to worry about the next owner if there is one, sueing me or reporting this to the authorities. Please re-read Dan's posts, I believe that he is a lawyer and knows what he is talking about. Let's get on to more important stuff!
10-11-2002, 05:57 PM
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Having just been thru the long distance purchase experience I can understand the insecurity /anger of not being able to trust that what you paid for is what you got. Given the continued downward pressure on prices, I may have paid a couple of thousand more for my car than I should have or could have now. I care but not that much since I LOVE THAT CAR!!!!!! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> That and I'm keeping it forever.
So if you are planning on keeping the car and driving it, then try not to sweat it too much.
So if you are planning on keeping the car and driving it, then try not to sweat it too much.
10-11-2002, 06:55 PM
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Dj,
Sorry DJ, the last thing on this gentlemen's mind is apology. (Remember, we are the shop that did the inspection several months after the Pre-Purchase Inspection and have never done any repairs to the car.)
To others: There are 2 sides to every story/problem. Mr. Z has dealt with quite a few dealers and shops at this point and feels he has been misinformed by some. I would hope if he (and any one else) had an issue with any of them he would deal with them directly to clear up the problem.
Mr. Z now feels that he can now enjoy his car after posting this valuable information. I say: Congratulations! to him. Enjoy!!
For me, I have more pressing things to worry about! The trailers aren't loaded yet, tires not mounted, I have to be at the track early a.m.
Willow Springs is calling my name....Have a good and safe weekend everyone.. and Thanks.
Laura
949 458-7223
Sorry DJ, the last thing on this gentlemen's mind is apology. (Remember, we are the shop that did the inspection several months after the Pre-Purchase Inspection and have never done any repairs to the car.)
To others: There are 2 sides to every story/problem. Mr. Z has dealt with quite a few dealers and shops at this point and feels he has been misinformed by some. I would hope if he (and any one else) had an issue with any of them he would deal with them directly to clear up the problem.
Mr. Z now feels that he can now enjoy his car after posting this valuable information. I say: Congratulations! to him. Enjoy!!
For me, I have more pressing things to worry about! The trailers aren't loaded yet, tires not mounted, I have to be at the track early a.m.
Willow Springs is calling my name....Have a good and safe weekend everyone.. and Thanks.
Laura
949 458-7223
10-11-2002, 06:56 PM
#20
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[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>Please re-read Dan's posts, I believe that he is a lawyer and knows what he is talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
DrZ
One does not necessarily follow from the other, but since you sucked me in again, here's my $.02:
1. Issue #1 - Assuming all you posted is true, someone screwed up or covered up the speedo swap. That's not likely to be found in a PPI unless there's an inconsistency between condition & mileage which is not your case. Although, it was wrongful & you may have a suit against the seller (who in turn could join whomever sold it to them, etc. down the chain), what are your damages? I think that's Mike's point (or rather his opinion) - OK there was a foul, but no harm, so continue on. If you're a Type A, that can be hard to do. I don't fault you for being pissed & using this Board, as so many have, to vent.
2. Issue #2 - You publically posted, "Could be Hergesheimer got it wrong on this one." Although I'm not sure exactly what "it" refers to, I like others assume you believe they did get it wrong?
If so, it is irresponsible to make the suggestion w/o support, clarification & w/o further dialogue. Your "private" response was, IMO, inappropriate. What began in public should end in public, especially given Laura's Rennlist contributions & apparent willingness & desire to "clear the air." BTW, I've never met, nor had any personal dealings with the lady.
If you have concluded Hergesheimer did NOT get it wrong, a public acknowledgment is in order. I think that's the point raised by Mark and others.
Please, I need closure so I can sleep peacefully tonight - I find Rennlist tension sooooo upsetting. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
<strong>Please re-read Dan's posts, I believe that he is a lawyer and knows what he is talking about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
DrZ
One does not necessarily follow from the other, but since you sucked me in again, here's my $.02:
1. Issue #1 - Assuming all you posted is true, someone screwed up or covered up the speedo swap. That's not likely to be found in a PPI unless there's an inconsistency between condition & mileage which is not your case. Although, it was wrongful & you may have a suit against the seller (who in turn could join whomever sold it to them, etc. down the chain), what are your damages? I think that's Mike's point (or rather his opinion) - OK there was a foul, but no harm, so continue on. If you're a Type A, that can be hard to do. I don't fault you for being pissed & using this Board, as so many have, to vent.
2. Issue #2 - You publically posted, "Could be Hergesheimer got it wrong on this one." Although I'm not sure exactly what "it" refers to, I like others assume you believe they did get it wrong?
If so, it is irresponsible to make the suggestion w/o support, clarification & w/o further dialogue. Your "private" response was, IMO, inappropriate. What began in public should end in public, especially given Laura's Rennlist contributions & apparent willingness & desire to "clear the air." BTW, I've never met, nor had any personal dealings with the lady.
If you have concluded Hergesheimer did NOT get it wrong, a public acknowledgment is in order. I think that's the point raised by Mark and others.
Please, I need closure so I can sleep peacefully tonight - I find Rennlist tension sooooo upsetting. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
10-11-2002, 07:01 PM
#21
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[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>Hey guys you are just not getting it. The point to all of this is nobody documented or disclosed the speedo swap. It was missed on the PPI and a post purchase inspection. Turns out to be innocent sloppyness but could have been a lot worse. Look when you see one cockroach... I am happy that now all is explained and in order. I won't have to worry about the next owner if there is one, sueing me or reporting this to the authorities. Please re-read Dan's posts, I believe that he is a lawyer and knows what he is talking about. Let's get on to more important stuff!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Doc, I for one can tell you're new at this if you think Hergies (or any shop for that matter) is going to catch a replaced speedo during the PPI. I for one hope they spend a lot more time looking at the motor and the important/expensive parts than using q-tips and white gloves on the precious leather interior.
As others have already stated, what the hell's the difference between 4000 and 9000 miles anyway? Hell, my car has had no major problems and has 109,500 miles on the first clutch and shocks. (
)
I know Laura will not publish your apology or whatever it was in public since she is a class act, but you sir should grow some hair and do it.
E. J.
<strong>Hey guys you are just not getting it. The point to all of this is nobody documented or disclosed the speedo swap. It was missed on the PPI and a post purchase inspection. Turns out to be innocent sloppyness but could have been a lot worse. Look when you see one cockroach... I am happy that now all is explained and in order. I won't have to worry about the next owner if there is one, sueing me or reporting this to the authorities. Please re-read Dan's posts, I believe that he is a lawyer and knows what he is talking about. Let's get on to more important stuff!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Doc, I for one can tell you're new at this if you think Hergies (or any shop for that matter) is going to catch a replaced speedo during the PPI. I for one hope they spend a lot more time looking at the motor and the important/expensive parts than using q-tips and white gloves on the precious leather interior.
As others have already stated, what the hell's the difference between 4000 and 9000 miles anyway? Hell, my car has had no major problems and has 109,500 miles on the first clutch and shocks. (
) I know Laura will not publish your apology or whatever it was in public since she is a class act, but you sir should grow some hair and do it.
E. J.
10-11-2002, 07:28 PM
#22
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It is now pretty clear that this was not a misunderstanding of what DrZ meant. He IS slamming Hergesheimer and lacks the backbone to do so directly. Rather it is implied.
What has been overlooked is that Hergesheimer compared miles to hours and got the average that is spot on what everyone else has reported on this forum. They did appear to do a complete job, but some customers can not be satisfied. I will bet that DrZ is the type that has gone through numerous shops in his short time as an owner and charmed them just like he has done here.
DrZ - Glad we could give you a place to vent. I hope you feel better. Like I said, good luck getting help from the regulars here.
What has been overlooked is that Hergesheimer compared miles to hours and got the average that is spot on what everyone else has reported on this forum. They did appear to do a complete job, but some customers can not be satisfied. I will bet that DrZ is the type that has gone through numerous shops in his short time as an owner and charmed them just like he has done here.
DrZ - Glad we could give you a place to vent. I hope you feel better. Like I said, good luck getting help from the regulars here.
10-11-2002, 07:36 PM
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What do you guys expect from a guy that buys a car in Florida when he lives in the Porsche capital of the world (So Cal.) I mean it is not like he didn't have a couple hundred 993's to choose from.
10-11-2002, 07:50 PM
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Willow Springs - sounds good from where I sit with an English winter but weeks away! Laura enjoy your weekend from your responses I would be happy to do business with you but for the small matter of several thousand miles of water!
10-11-2002, 10:13 PM
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Laura,
I'd like to extend an official invitation to you to open up shop in Lexington. I'm sure Greg, Jerry, and I would make great customers (we all have upgrade fever and know how to break things).
I've previously invited Steve, but he doesn't seem to see the wonderful opportunity out here in thoroughbred country!
BTW, bring Willow with you while you're at it. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Dr. Z,
If it makes you feel any better, the owner of the independent shop that sold me my 993TT (with 6,000 reported miles) explained to me just how easy it is to disconnect the speedometer just after I paid for the car. Talk about confidence inspiring. The condition of the car appeared to be immaculate, and the service records jived with the reported mileage, but who really knows after a bone-headed comment like that. On the bright side, my car's been perfect and now has 19,000 "supposed" miles on it - 13,000 of which I know are real! 
I'd like to extend an official invitation to you to open up shop in Lexington. I'm sure Greg, Jerry, and I would make great customers (we all have upgrade fever and know how to break things).
I've previously invited Steve, but he doesn't seem to see the wonderful opportunity out here in thoroughbred country!
BTW, bring Willow with you while you're at it. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Dr. Z,
If it makes you feel any better, the owner of the independent shop that sold me my 993TT (with 6,000 reported miles) explained to me just how easy it is to disconnect the speedometer just after I paid for the car.
Talk about confidence inspiring. The condition of the car appeared to be immaculate, and the service records jived with the reported mileage, but who really knows after a bone-headed comment like that. On the bright side, my car's been perfect and now has 19,000 "supposed" miles on it - 13,000 of which I know are real!
10-11-2002, 11:30 PM
#26
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Since Laura brought it public and to those of you who I e-mailed, but disengenously try to create facts, here is the story for the last time.
Hergesheimer had my car for 15 days and provided a written report documenting extensive front end body work and suggeston of a total repaint job. Also stated tires were wrong size and fronts were trashed due to flat spotting. Recommended that I go to Deschlers for body/frame assesment. Told me that PPI done in FL was essentially BS. When asked directly whether condition and mileage added up, he replied that underside road wear seemed a bit excessive. Car was returned to me late, filthy, and sans boot.(Laura kindly brought it to my office the next day)
To my relief Tim Deschler thought car was clean and only had front bumper resprayed.
Several weeks later after reading a post re: odometer fraud I noted the obvious even to a first time P owner. The lens had a 1" crack near the bezel, The digits were all out of alignment, and the rubber washer was pushed all the way into the dash.
Called Mark to ask if he could run an engine time in order to estimate actual mileage. He recommended that I go to a dealer. Newport Auto
confirmed that the Speedo has been pulled but felt that the overall condition of the car was cosistent wih the current reading of 9000. No body or paint work detected other than bumper. They suggested I get a hold of the seller in hope of finding documentation. So you all know the rest of the story, the seller was cooperative and found the paperwork. All this apparently sloppy record keeping but innocent. It was Mark's initial opinion that the car had a mysterious history that led to my concern and subsequent board dicussion. FWIW: tires were correct, but wheels were'nt. Wheel Enhancement traded the rears for the correct ET and balanced the fronts. Problem solved. Laura which of the above facts do you dispute?
If it makes some of you feel better, Lets change the first post to read that maybe the car had been in a wreck and the mileage is correct. "Could it be that Deschlers and Newport Auto got it wrong on this one"
Goodnight and please let's get back to talking cars rather than smack.
Hergesheimer had my car for 15 days and provided a written report documenting extensive front end body work and suggeston of a total repaint job. Also stated tires were wrong size and fronts were trashed due to flat spotting. Recommended that I go to Deschlers for body/frame assesment. Told me that PPI done in FL was essentially BS. When asked directly whether condition and mileage added up, he replied that underside road wear seemed a bit excessive. Car was returned to me late, filthy, and sans boot.(Laura kindly brought it to my office the next day)
To my relief Tim Deschler thought car was clean and only had front bumper resprayed.
Several weeks later after reading a post re: odometer fraud I noted the obvious even to a first time P owner. The lens had a 1" crack near the bezel, The digits were all out of alignment, and the rubber washer was pushed all the way into the dash.
Called Mark to ask if he could run an engine time in order to estimate actual mileage. He recommended that I go to a dealer. Newport Auto
confirmed that the Speedo has been pulled but felt that the overall condition of the car was cosistent wih the current reading of 9000. No body or paint work detected other than bumper. They suggested I get a hold of the seller in hope of finding documentation. So you all know the rest of the story, the seller was cooperative and found the paperwork. All this apparently sloppy record keeping but innocent. It was Mark's initial opinion that the car had a mysterious history that led to my concern and subsequent board dicussion. FWIW: tires were correct, but wheels were'nt. Wheel Enhancement traded the rears for the correct ET and balanced the fronts. Problem solved. Laura which of the above facts do you dispute?
If it makes some of you feel better, Lets change the first post to read that maybe the car had been in a wreck and the mileage is correct. "Could it be that Deschlers and Newport Auto got it wrong on this one"
Goodnight and please let's get back to talking cars rather than smack.
10-12-2002, 12:17 AM
#27
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DrZ, you are a real piece of work. Laura did not make anything public, and you never eMailed me, but I am the one who called you out. So how does that support yet another of your absurd claims?
The real pity here is not the BS from DrZ. It is the fact that only a very few people think enough of this forum to try to stand up for a valuable contributor when they are attacked.
The real pity here is not the BS from DrZ. It is the fact that only a very few people think enough of this forum to try to stand up for a valuable contributor when they are attacked.
10-12-2002, 12:36 AM
#28
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Mark,
I deal with the Dr Z type quite a bit! Usually the people that come into a dealership whining about the last dealership...."they were jerks" "not enough discount" etc... There is No way to Please them. We just let them rant and rave, and 10 out of 10 times they make complete A$$'s of themself.
Laura handled this IDOT wonderfully. and in doing so....created even more respect than she already had!
I for one really dislike NON paying (if it is the case) members ranting for no apparent reason.
I and I dont think I'm alone enjoy hanging around here for the FUN of it. Not to listen too some 2 bit whiner complain because he's unhappy with what he purchased after several PPIs, and post PPIS.....sheesh
I deal with the Dr Z type quite a bit! Usually the people that come into a dealership whining about the last dealership...."they were jerks" "not enough discount" etc... There is No way to Please them. We just let them rant and rave, and 10 out of 10 times they make complete A$$'s of themself.
Laura handled this IDOT wonderfully. and in doing so....created even more respect than she already had!
I for one really dislike NON paying (if it is the case) members ranting for no apparent reason.
I and I dont think I'm alone enjoy hanging around here for the FUN of it. Not to listen too some 2 bit whiner complain because he's unhappy with what he purchased after several PPIs, and post PPIS.....sheesh
10-12-2002, 12:46 AM
#29
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Read your private mail Mark. I have no agenda here or desire to get into a pissing contest. Anyone without a chip on their shoulder can see from this ridiculous thread who the adults are. Phil your comments remind me of the Porsche/Porcupine joke. BTW I became a member last week. This must be the initiation right?
10-12-2002, 12:59 AM
#30
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[quote]Originally posted by DrZ:
<strong>Read your private mail Mark. I have no agenda here or desire to get into a pissing contest. Anyone without a chip on their shoulder can see from this ridiculous thread who the adults are. Phil your comments remind me of the Porsche/Porcupine joke. BTW I became a member last week. This must be the initiation right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My account is set to not accept private mail and you are already in my spam filter for my eMail. If you want to say something to me, do so here - even thought you say you want to end this (I guess that is as long as you have the last word.) One thing you are very correct about - the ability of poeple to see who the adults are. Also very funny that you should mention that joke - I thought about it as soon as you started posting.
<strong>Read your private mail Mark. I have no agenda here or desire to get into a pissing contest. Anyone without a chip on their shoulder can see from this ridiculous thread who the adults are. Phil your comments remind me of the Porsche/Porcupine joke. BTW I became a member last week. This must be the initiation right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My account is set to not accept private mail and you are already in my spam filter for my eMail. If you want to say something to me, do so here - even thought you say you want to end this (I guess that is as long as you have the last word.) One thing you are very correct about - the ability of poeple to see who the adults are. Also very funny that you should mention that joke - I thought about it as soon as you started posting.