Flashing CEL, cyl 1 misfire
10-28-2014, 01:23 PM
#16
I'm old! After a weekend of lying down, sliding under the car, wrenching, sliding out from under the car, sitting up, standing up, leaning into the engine compartment and wrenching with arms over head, repeat about 100 times ... I can hardly move.
I had the same issue with a single cyl misfire...
I pulled the caps and rotors to inspect, because my documentation did not reflect that they had ever been changed. (3rd owner of a 1996 @ 73k mi)
I found carbon traces part way around the circumference of the cap contact points, and replaced caps and rotors. I also pulled the ICV and cleaned a bunch of sooty crap till the idler oscillated freely again...So far, (knock on wood) no more CEL or misfire codes being thrown.
10-28-2014, 02:01 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Checked the distributor belt and it is good (still turning the second dist).
I replaced the caps/rotors/ignition wires/coil wires/spark plugs. I did not see any other obvious issues other than the corrosion on the ignition wire and spark plug on cyl 1. Now have driven the car to work and back, 66 miles, and the misfire CEL has not returned (fingers crossed while knocking on wood).
Since the engine was out in 2011 there has been a slight and irregular buzz on the driver's side. I could only hear it at idle and it sounded like it was coming from the muffler or exhaust pipes. I had checked all exhaust connections, even removed the muffler and shook it, finding nothing and not changing the buzz. When I had fan and ducts out to change the plugs I found a 1/4 inch ratchet and deep socket laying in the engine tin next to the spark plugs. Removing it cured the buzz. It was not my ratchet.
While I was in there I replaced the valve cover gaskets to see if I could stop a small oil seep but it looks like it might be coming from the right side cam chain cover. I didn't have that gasket on hand and I didn't feel like taking that on this weekend.
I'm old! After a weekend of lying down, sliding under the car, wrenching, sliding out from under the car, sitting up, standing up, leaning into the engine compartment and wrenching with arms over head, repeat about 100 times ... I can hardly move.
I replaced the caps/rotors/ignition wires/coil wires/spark plugs. I did not see any other obvious issues other than the corrosion on the ignition wire and spark plug on cyl 1. Now have driven the car to work and back, 66 miles, and the misfire CEL has not returned (fingers crossed while knocking on wood).
Since the engine was out in 2011 there has been a slight and irregular buzz on the driver's side. I could only hear it at idle and it sounded like it was coming from the muffler or exhaust pipes. I had checked all exhaust connections, even removed the muffler and shook it, finding nothing and not changing the buzz. When I had fan and ducts out to change the plugs I found a 1/4 inch ratchet and deep socket laying in the engine tin next to the spark plugs. Removing it cured the buzz. It was not my ratchet.
While I was in there I replaced the valve cover gaskets to see if I could stop a small oil seep but it looks like it might be coming from the right side cam chain cover. I didn't have that gasket on hand and I didn't feel like taking that on this weekend.
I'm old! After a weekend of lying down, sliding under the car, wrenching, sliding out from under the car, sitting up, standing up, leaning into the engine compartment and wrenching with arms over head, repeat about 100 times ... I can hardly move.
I'm still not done with my so called routine maintenance of plugs and wires and it's been over a week. (waiting on some crush seals and new hardware to arrive)Crazy that someone left an entire ratchet + socket down there!
10-28-2014, 02:45 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That's an impressive list of work to get done in a weekend. I'm still not done with my so called routine maintenance of plugs and wires and it's been over a week. (waiting on some crush seals and new hardware to arrive)
Crazy that someone left an entire ratchet + socket down there!
I'm still not done with my so called routine maintenance of plugs and wires and it's been over a week. (waiting on some crush seals and new hardware to arrive)Crazy that someone left an entire ratchet + socket down there!
When I get home I'll take a pic of the gizmo I use to turn the ignition wire clamp screws that go into the fan shroud. IMO that is the worst part of replacing the ignition wires. It hurts my hand/fingers. Maybe someone else can provide a better solution. I removed the engine tin on both sides so I could get to the upper valve covers. That makes changing the upper plugs much easier but the allen head bolts in the tin can be trouble. I've replaced them with new ones both times I've had them out.
10-29-2014, 01:46 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I use a 1/4 inch ratcheting dogbone with a phillips bit wedged by a bit of cotton fiber towel so it won't fall out. I bent clothes hanger wire to go through the other end of the dogbone and clamped vise grips on the end of the wire. Picture stretching fingers through the intake runners to put a little pressure on the end of the doggone to hold it on the screw. Push and pull the vise grips from the back of the engine to operate the ratchet a few clicks.
???
02-17-2016, 08:02 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Edit and update: After about a year of chasing this intermittent misfire it appears it may be repaired by replacing a faulty fuel injector. There may have been issues with more than one injector. I sent them all out for clean/cal and the results provided for individual injectors showed several leaking, one stuck wide open, one with low flow. After reinstalling them I had a persistent CEL and misfire on one cylinder. I replaced the fuel injector for that cylinder with a new one and the car has been running well for three trips and about 180 miles.
The original misfire code was on cylinder 1. I initially replaced the spark plugs, plug wires, caps, rotors. When replacing the wires I found that the top wire on cylinder 1 was not snapped all the way on and the contact was corroded and green. Thought then that might have been the problem but the CEL and misfire reoccured. I replaced the fuel filter and swapped the numbers 1 and 4 injectors. Then had misfire on number 3. Sent the fuel injectors for clean/cal. After reinstalling them the CEL reoccured with misfire on cyl 6 and had strong smell of gasoline. Discussed at length with Steve Weiner via his consulting services (thank you Steve!!). He sent new o-rings for all of the injectors. I took the air cleaner off the right side and could see gas pumping out of the rail/injector connection with the key on. Replaced all of the o-rings and swapped the number 6 and 4 injectors. The o-rings fixed the fuel leak but then had misfire on cyl 4. I replaced that fuel injector with a new one and the car is running well.
I think at least one of the the new o-rings provided by the fuel injector clean/cal place may have been wrong or defective. I don't know what to make of the results they provided that showed all injectors consistent and within limits after cal but one caused a persistent misfire. Before the clean/cal the misfire was intermittent with long periods between failure. Supporting their results was the fact that the intermittent misfire did not follow a specific injector. So ...
The original misfire code was on cylinder 1. I initially replaced the spark plugs, plug wires, caps, rotors. When replacing the wires I found that the top wire on cylinder 1 was not snapped all the way on and the contact was corroded and green. Thought then that might have been the problem but the CEL and misfire reoccured. I replaced the fuel filter and swapped the numbers 1 and 4 injectors. Then had misfire on number 3. Sent the fuel injectors for clean/cal. After reinstalling them the CEL reoccured with misfire on cyl 6 and had strong smell of gasoline. Discussed at length with Steve Weiner via his consulting services (thank you Steve!!). He sent new o-rings for all of the injectors. I took the air cleaner off the right side and could see gas pumping out of the rail/injector connection with the key on. Replaced all of the o-rings and swapped the number 6 and 4 injectors. The o-rings fixed the fuel leak but then had misfire on cyl 4. I replaced that fuel injector with a new one and the car is running well.
I think at least one of the the new o-rings provided by the fuel injector clean/cal place may have been wrong or defective. I don't know what to make of the results they provided that showed all injectors consistent and within limits after cal but one caused a persistent misfire. Before the clean/cal the misfire was intermittent with long periods between failure. Supporting their results was the fact that the intermittent misfire did not follow a specific injector. So ...
I started my car cold and drove about half a block when it started running rough and the CEL came on flashing. I drove back home and shut off the car. After waiting about two minutes I started the car again and it was still running rough with flashing CEL. After the car sat for about two weeks (while I looked for my diag cables) I read the codes and found cyl 1 misfires. I checked the plug wires for security, looked for obvious plug wire damage and found nothing that looked wrong. I started the car and it ran smoothly with the CEL on steady. I cleared the codes and it didn't immediately return. I revved the car to 2000 rpm and then 4000 rpm and held for a few seconds. The engine ran smoothly. I drove the car to work (33 miles of freeway each way) and just as I returned home the CEL came on steady. Again with the cyl 1 misfire code.
Car is a 97 C2S with 98,000 miles. Steve Weiner programmed the ECU for me. The plugs, plug wires, caps, rotors were replaced for the second time (engine out) Jan 2011 at about 85,000 miles. I have owned the car since 2005 when it had 45,000 miles. As far as I know there has not been any fuel injector maintenance.
My amateur theory is there must be an intermittently shorted plug wire or a problem with the fuel flow at the injector. Or possibly a valve train issue? This guess is based on the misfire only occurring on cyl 1 and being intermittent. I think this makes the flywheel sensor, coil, coil wires, caps, rotors, plugs unlikely to be the cause?
The only way I can think of to troubleshoot this is to replace the most likely part and drive? Is there something that should be done with the fuel injectors? Any suggestions?
Car is a 97 C2S with 98,000 miles. Steve Weiner programmed the ECU for me. The plugs, plug wires, caps, rotors were replaced for the second time (engine out) Jan 2011 at about 85,000 miles. I have owned the car since 2005 when it had 45,000 miles. As far as I know there has not been any fuel injector maintenance.
My amateur theory is there must be an intermittently shorted plug wire or a problem with the fuel flow at the injector. Or possibly a valve train issue? This guess is based on the misfire only occurring on cyl 1 and being intermittent. I think this makes the flywheel sensor, coil, coil wires, caps, rotors, plugs unlikely to be the cause?
The only way I can think of to troubleshoot this is to replace the most likely part and drive? Is there something that should be done with the fuel injectors? Any suggestions?
02-18-2016, 10:24 AM
#23