Are the new Porsche's "over-engineered"?
08-12-2003, 07:13 PM
#16
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The main cost savings at Porsche are achieved in the design phase by using crossover parts across the Boxster and 911 platforms and also cheaper to produce designs for the parts.
The Boxster/911 engine, suspension, brakes and gearboxes and several body panels are esentially identical save for a few modifications that cost no more to build.
For example the 911 engine is a bored and stroked Boxster engine with differences in fuel injection and cams that raise the horsepower at little or no more cost to manufacture.
I bet it costs the factory more to build a Boxster S with it's complicated convertible top than is costs them to build a 911 Coupe.
The engine of the new 911 is essentially cast as one piece using a cheaper cylinder wall technology with non removable cylinders and no dry sump.
The gearboxes have no servicable internals and are throw away like a Timex watch.
Couple the above with production methods developed by Toyota engineers, who came to Porsche some years ago and showed them how to build cars with minimum labor costs and just in time inventory, and you have the makings of huge cost savings in production.
The Boxster/911 engine, suspension, brakes and gearboxes and several body panels are esentially identical save for a few modifications that cost no more to build.
For example the 911 engine is a bored and stroked Boxster engine with differences in fuel injection and cams that raise the horsepower at little or no more cost to manufacture.
I bet it costs the factory more to build a Boxster S with it's complicated convertible top than is costs them to build a 911 Coupe.
The engine of the new 911 is essentially cast as one piece using a cheaper cylinder wall technology with non removable cylinders and no dry sump.
The gearboxes have no servicable internals and are throw away like a Timex watch.
Couple the above with production methods developed by Toyota engineers, who came to Porsche some years ago and showed them how to build cars with minimum labor costs and just in time inventory, and you have the makings of huge cost savings in production.
08-12-2003, 08:26 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
For under $2k I would recommend one of the following chronographs. I've owned them all and can recommend them from experience....
IWC 3706
IWC GST Chronograph
Sinn 103 Ti Ar UTC
Omega Dynamic Chrono
Omega Seamaster
Omega Speedmaster Broad Arrow
Maurice LaCroix Masterpiece Chronograph
Chronoswiss Chronograph
Zenith El Primero
All are first rate watches and can be had for around $2K new or a good bit less if you buy used but near mint. Look on Timezone.com
I just got this in Monday. Pretty rare and extremely cool specs (ice hardened case, Argon filled, magnetically shielded, etc.). It's a Sinn 756 chronograph and runs around $1000 when you can find them.
IWC 3706
IWC GST Chronograph
Sinn 103 Ti Ar UTC
Omega Dynamic Chrono
Omega Seamaster
Omega Speedmaster Broad Arrow
Maurice LaCroix Masterpiece Chronograph
Chronoswiss Chronograph
Zenith El Primero
All are first rate watches and can be had for around $2K new or a good bit less if you buy used but near mint. Look on Timezone.com
I just got this in Monday. Pretty rare and extremely cool specs (ice hardened case, Argon filled, magnetically shielded, etc.). It's a Sinn 756 chronograph and runs around $1000 when you can find them.
08-13-2003, 01:18 AM
#20
Addicted Specialist
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Bill1963,
You know, your watch analogy really makes sense. When I had only my Alfa Spider to commute and track with, I really enjoyed it! Sure other, more modern cars had this and that, and lots of my friends just didn't "get it" as to why I still loved driving it, especially when so many other gee-wizz machines were coming out of Japan, and fairly cheap. But the Alfa had "soul" ...something non-Alfa owners insisted was either an excuse or a cult. The aircooled 911 has soul and I love driving it, sitting in it, cleaning it, looking at it, you know! And your Sinn watch remind me of the clean tach and speedo of my 993 (AND my long-gone Spider), where function was king, and form followed gracefully after. Just my thoughts...
Edward
You know, your watch analogy really makes sense. When I had only my Alfa Spider to commute and track with, I really enjoyed it! Sure other, more modern cars had this and that, and lots of my friends just didn't "get it" as to why I still loved driving it, especially when so many other gee-wizz machines were coming out of Japan, and fairly cheap. But the Alfa had "soul" ...something non-Alfa owners insisted was either an excuse or a cult. The aircooled 911 has soul and I love driving it, sitting in it, cleaning it, looking at it, you know! And your Sinn watch remind me of the clean tach and speedo of my 993 (AND my long-gone Spider), where function was king, and form followed gracefully after. Just my thoughts...
Edward
08-13-2003, 08:06 AM
#21
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Thread Starter
Sinn's are considered "tool" watches...meaning purpose made and purpose looking. It's not a surprise that the watch is made in Germany. The founder of Sinn was a Luftwaffe pilot....hence, the analog gauge look!
We're getting way OT here
We're getting way OT here
08-13-2003, 08:45 AM
#22
King of Cool
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I agree with you guys about "old better things".
Of course I love old Porsches, not only 993, especially 911s, 964 and 356s also (and also those that I can't afford so I'm not mentioning them).
I also love mechanical watches even though they cost more, cost more to maintain and don't keep as good time as that @20 Costco watch does.
And this kind of thing is not limited to cars & watches, for example, why do you think Keith Richards plays that nasty old telecaster which mics make noise etc. when he could have "all" the new guitars in the world?
Or why them hundreds of years old violins are must for all great violin players when they could have those *great* modern electric pearl painted violins?
Soul, Feel etc.? Yes in deed.
Porsches defenately used to be built betterthan what they are today and don't even get me started with lack of racing...
Of course I love old Porsches, not only 993, especially 911s, 964 and 356s also (and also those that I can't afford so I'm not mentioning them).
I also love mechanical watches even though they cost more, cost more to maintain and don't keep as good time as that @20 Costco watch does.
And this kind of thing is not limited to cars & watches, for example, why do you think Keith Richards plays that nasty old telecaster which mics make noise etc. when he could have "all" the new guitars in the world?
Or why them hundreds of years old violins are must for all great violin players when they could have those *great* modern electric pearl painted violins?
Soul, Feel etc.? Yes in deed.
Porsches defenately used to be built betterthan what they are today and don't even get me started with lack of racing...
08-13-2003, 10:19 AM
#23
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Edward,
I used to own a few Alfas (two Milanos and a GTV6). Having "character" was what we used to describe when:
a) the climate control was binary (too hot or too cold)
b) ergonomics? what ergonomics? Do all Italians have orangutan arms?
c) yes, they all have dash rattles, sir
d) people would ask who makes Alfa Romeos
Then I had a Lotus Esprit S2 that had just a little too much "character" which I dumped for a 300ZX TT, which had barely any (still a fun car though).
The 993 has just about the right balance. Enough "character" to make life interesting, but not too much that I spend every weekend underneath the engine.
I used to own a few Alfas (two Milanos and a GTV6). Having "character" was what we used to describe when:
a) the climate control was binary (too hot or too cold)
b) ergonomics? what ergonomics? Do all Italians have orangutan arms?
c) yes, they all have dash rattles, sir
d) people would ask who makes Alfa Romeos
Then I had a Lotus Esprit S2 that had just a little too much "character" which I dumped for a 300ZX TT, which had barely any (still a fun car though).
The 993 has just about the right balance. Enough "character" to make life interesting, but not too much that I spend every weekend underneath the engine.
08-13-2003, 01:05 PM
#24
Addicted Specialist
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Rezal,
Yeah, I know what you mean on all counts!!!
Still, mine was rock-solid reliable for for the 15 or so years I've owned it, never broke even on the track, and it was always a hoot to drive. Of course, I didn't HAVE to sell it....just found that I wasn't driving it after I got the 993 .....ultimate (realistic) dream car for me. Besides, there were all of you people here tempting me with those suspensions upgrades
Edward
Yeah, I know what you mean on all counts!!!
Still, mine was rock-solid reliable for for the 15 or so years I've owned it, never broke even on the track, and it was always a hoot to drive. Of course, I didn't HAVE to sell it....just found that I wasn't driving it after I got the 993 .....ultimate (realistic) dream car for me. Besides, there were all of you people here tempting me with those suspensions upgrades
Edward
08-13-2003, 01:11 PM
#25
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Dave posted in the 1st reply some very correct info, I have the Autoweeek article about the help they got for production from the Toyota people.
The 993 benefited from the no comprimise design but the better quality of parts incoming from the suppliers. The assembly people used to rework the parts raising the hours and cost of the car.
Great article...
The 993 benefited from the no comprimise design but the better quality of parts incoming from the suppliers. The assembly people used to rework the parts raising the hours and cost of the car.
Great article...
