Spyder_Man

Knight, thanks for the input. The tie rods and steering rack are being replaced as part of this repair job as well. Yes, now would be an opportune time to swap to RS tie rods and uprights, but I don't see RS ride height as being practical for street use and I've spent too much money already!

RS tie rods, uprights, and sway bars will be reserved for a down the road upgrade if/when this car becomes more track oriented.

Bill Verburg

No, w/ rubber bushes the final tightening of the bolts isn't done until the car is resting on it's wheels, this allows the steel sleeves to rotate to a neutral or indexed position, if this isn't done the rubber can be over rotated accelerating wear( I believe this to be a major cause of bush failure, the cars get lowered but the bushes don't get re-indexed)

ToSi

^^ applies in most cases but the forward bushing in the front control arms has an indexing nub that fixes its location vs. the subframe. The only way to index it is to remove & reinstall at a diff't clocked position in the a-arm.

The outstanding question is: Are the forward bushings in authentic RS front arms clocked differently vs. non-RS models to account for the lower ride height? I don't recall a difference in US vs ROW parts.

Bill Verburg

The bush may be fixed, but the index position isn't fixed until the bolt is torqued to spec, while on it's wheels

Bill Verburg

Here is a pic of Elephant sports mounted in a 993 arm, the leading leg is indexed to the arm the bolt screws into the far side bush sleeve so that the voids are aligned correctly


The trailing leg has a nut and bolt



BYTW these have ~10k track mi. on them and look like new

NYC993

I really enjoyed reading this thread, thanks for the posts with pictures, Bill.

ToSi

The bump @ 12 o'clock on the trailing bushing in your photo fits into a corresponding recess in the subframe. The bushing's location is fixed vs. subframe, hence the arm is too..

Usually this is type of aligning feature is used to prevent the TQ a part which moves during normal use from loosening a mounting bolt (edit: or tightening of fastener during installation from twisting the bushing). With the nothing connected to the ball joint end of the arms, you can loosen the inner bolts a couple turns and the arms won't droop.

The nub lines up w/ the parting line on the parts I've seen. Did you intentionally reclock these by a few degrees or is it just an illusion?

CaptainGSR

+1 on clocking all bushings like Bill said. (i.e. tightening only with weight on wheels/neutral resting position)
All car manufacturers do it at the factory for all cars, but sadly the majority of car mechanics don't bother in order to save time...

If you invest money in some nice front LCA rubber Elephant Racing bushings, and if your car is lowered, then it makes sense to install the most forward bushings correctly to prevent premature wear!

To clock my most forward front LCA bushings, I marked the neutral positions of both nubs (with weight on wheels on a flat surface,) before taking the car apart.
I made black marks on both sides of the arms, and on the new bushings, to get it just right. I then pressed in the new bushings in that new neutral position.
My car is only slightly lowered, and you can see the difference between stock height, and lowered (black marks) on the photo.

P.S.: red marks are approximate, you get the idea...

Obviously, all that is rubbish, if you drastically change the front ride height afterwards...

IXLR8

That is standard practice, how it should be done and what I did after installing new upper A arms with new ball joint in my last daily driver.

Good post and nice bench vise by the way.

NYC993

Is it possible to get to he bolts when the car is on the its wheels on the ground? Seems a bit hard if you don't have a ramp.

IXLR8

Exactly what I would do since I have access to one.

CaptainGSR

I don't have access to a fancy 4 post lift, so it took a while to get the car positioned just right.
After much finicking, I had the front of the car resting on two regular car ramps (themselves resting on three sideways 4 by 4s), and the rear supported by a single floor jack positioned under the center of the engine.
I found that using 2 floor jacks under the normal rear jacking points would slightly lift the front end, and mess up my measurements.
The engine is farther back. Lifting it allows the front end remains more under load.
My ramps were too tall for me to drive on, and yet too low for me to have enough room to work under there. I had to lift the front end via the front jacking points, and place my ramps backwards. As for the 4 by 4s, I had Home depot cut me 6 identical pieces slightly wider than my plastic rhino ramps. The whole setup was very stable.

I have two 3 ton floor jacks, but I guess it could work with only one, as long as you have a couple of jack stands to temporarily jack up the rear before you setup the front end. Otherwise, once the front end is resting on the ramps, your jack might not fit under the rear bumper to jack up the engine...

Being skinny, and having a fairly short torque wrench helped a lot... It was definitely a tight fit under there...

Good times...

ToSi

guys, you're wasting your time.. the front rubber bushings have an indexing feature that determines the bushing's position (see photo in post 52 above). You should torque the mounting bolts with it in the corresponding recess in the subframe, this works out to having the arms approximately level (unless the bushings have been re-indexed in the arms as in CaptGSR's case).

By dropping the car on its wheels first, you run the risk of misaligning the bushing - especially if the car has been lowered. If it later slips into position, the result could be a loose bolt.

Walrod bushings, by design, let the bushing rotate about the center collar. Since these (& monoballs) can rotate relatively freely, they can be tightened regardless of position.

The rear arms are a different story & should be tightened at ride height if using rubber bushings.