Falcondrivr

I use the Sumis as my daily driver tires, and the rain option at the track. I agree that they are a fabulous bang for the buck.
I think th op got his money's worth. Any brand of tire, when run down to that tread level, cannot be trusted.

NYC993

You missed my point, but that's ok because your argument will be always be to defend sumi's since you have them.

Sumi's performance aspect is not the concern and i'm not comparing them to 500 a tire michelin, which btw is expensive not because it's much better on the track.

My concern is that i don't know where the cost savings come from even compared to the next cheapest tire. I just don't think there is 50% margin that sumi was able to magically find. Maybe it's thread life that gives, maybe worse cold performance, maybe higher chance of blow out. Second picture above clearly shows that costs were cut and it's not the trade-off that I would want.

goofballdeluxe

Sure are a lot of assumptions here. Glad to hear you know what I think

Without a proper assessment from a tire expert, we don't know that cost-cutting was a factor. It's also possible that the Michelin is priced twice as high because people of a similar mind-set to yours will pay double for a fractional gain; a manufacturer's favorite customer.

I don't really have any brand allegiance to Sumi or any other manufacturer. I simply went to Tire Rack and looked at their independent testing. So, instead of assumptions and hypotheses, I chose to defer to experts in the tire field and bought the Sumis based on their conclusion. Sure beats guessing and brand shopping without empirical data, at least for me

NYC993

I don't know what you think, I simply replied to what you wrote.

NYC993

Mindset to mine? I don't advocate nor did bring up michelins. Actually, I said "the next cheapest tire"

goofballdeluxe

Uhh, you told me "your argument will be always be to defend sumi's since you have them." That's not what I think. I don't care about brand name. I care about a great tire at a fair price. Many on this board have found Sumi HTRZ IIIs to be great tires for the price.

OK Jersey, enjoy the weather back there and take care

P-daddy

IMO, what you see in pic 1 and 2 is nothing unusual for any brand. My little brother is older now, but still into the "import scene". You see cars (Honda, Lexus, VW, etc…) running bad alignment, unknowingly or on purpose, day in and day out, to achieve the stance. Tires can be a year old with 80% tread life, but due to camber, the inside edges are worn to the cord. Just my observation.

Dr. No

Yes, and I wasn't trying to start a debate, but to share an experience with a tire that I know a lot of people here use a lot harder than this tire was ever used. And this is the thanks I get.

This is my conclusion.

Really, Carnak, how do you know what my "habits" are? Or how the car was used or maintained? Or how closely I monitored their condition? I had two mid-90's Ford Exploders. I know a thing or two about tire condition and maintenance. Thanks for the sanctimony and statements of the obvious, however.

The tire is rated for 186 mph and XL loads. This tire never went over 72 mph on the back end of a 3200 pound front engined car. I showed you the same failure on a tire with so much tread that you can't possibly contend this failure (at 40-45 mph) is treadwear related. Don't be silly.

I think the tire was great performance for the buck. Great grip and handling. I've had them on other BMWs, but for under 10k mi. However, I have also learned something about this tire that you did not know, which is that it occasionally spontaneously delaminates at the inner sidewall. But, by all means, continue to believe that this highly unusual failure mode is solely treadwear related and has nothing to do with the design or construction of this tire.

Again, this is my conclusion. Based on what I've seen about this failure mode in this tire, I would never bring it to the track, and I'm not buying any more of them. And I really liked the way it rode and handled and loved the price.

Thank you.

Dr. No

Agree on all points, but please look at the picture at post 21. Not trying to start an argument, just trying to share what I've found.

Magdaddy

what I see in that pic...is another tire right at the wear bars, with slightly more inside wear than elsewhere. Typical for many european cars...just another tire driven too far past it's safe useful life.

Regarding checking tire wear at each fill up...it's tough as hell to gauge inside wear on our cars, especially if they are lowered. Sometimes, running your hand along the outside tread blocks can feel the damage starting. All the more reason for a quality alignment, with sensible settings for intended use, and closely watching tire pressures.

Amazing that this thread degraded(somewhat) into another tire brand debate. Hey...you want to put only P, or N rated aka Porsche approved rubber on your car, good for you. Probably not an issue to drop $1500 on a set of tires if you only drive 2,3, or 5K miles per year. For me, it simply makes no sense to burn thru a $1K set of Michelin rears every season...maybe even have to put a second set of rears on before the driving season is over, considering I average almost 10K miles per year.

Are Michelin's a better tire than Sumi's, or Hankook's...absolutely. Are they worth twice the money, absolutely not. Why are Michein's, Goodyear's, and Yokohama's so much more than some other brands...it's all in the name baby. How many actual tire manufacturers are there in the world anyway, there are so many brands under each major name's roof, it's ridiculous.

So, maybe the Sumi's, and Hankook's are last generation tire tech, compared to the company's flagship brand. IMHO, that most current technology ain't wirth a factor of 2 to me.

goofballdeluxe

I can only go from what you yourself said: "it's dry and warm and flat here, so we may try to squeeze a few more miles out of beater tires on the grocery getter" and from the over-worn conditions on the tires you feel are OK to drive on that you posted.

Sorry, I didn't meant to be condescending, but from the picture and your own statement, it appeared you might be unaware about all things tires.

My sincere apologies to you and your Carnak. Have him buy new tires too. It's cheap and safe insurance

Dr. No

OK truce. Remind me never to make lighthearted remarks to Canadians again. And if you find an article linking tread depth to sidewall integrity, please post it.

cgfen

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
a gem bubbles up from amongst the heated discussion.

thank you Pags

jo-hans

Was watching Fifth Gear tonight on DWHD and on one of the segments a similar tire failure as the OP'r.
Check this link, click on segment 4 and watch the beginning of the video re: Catastrophic de-lamination on the GTR at 155m/h! And those were fairly new. Yikes!