IMMOBILIZER!!!
#16
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Well.. I'm sure Marc would come over in a heartbeat if he thought he could swing it .. He had a pretty good time last trip:-). Alas, The problems I'm seeing are in assemblies and modules that came on the car from the factory, not 9m modified work. What are you doing this week, bud?
#17
Had to replace the keyway and associated steering wheel lock....doesn't sound like you have the same prob, luckily.
Gordo
#18
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Well, if I change the switch and that doesn't fix the problem, then I will probably change the keyway/steering wheel lock next because the immobilizer unit's price is astronomical.
#19
1. "So .... I do some more research .. and it seems the logical next culprits in the chain are the ignition switch and/or the immobilizer unit itself."
2. "I get the 'click' of the solenoid but starter won't engage."
I. One always needs to fully define one's problem as a no-crank or a no-start situation.
The implication from #2 is that it's a no-crank. If that's the case then;
a. bad starter/solenoid
b. weak starter signal from the ignition switch thru the starter relay, clutch switch, and/or
the alarm ECU.
c. weak battery and/or bad connections
II. If it's truly a no-start then;
a. The immobilizer ECU is not receiving the code signal from the remote.
b. There's a problem with the immobilizer ECU, but the immobilizer ECU is very reliable
and rarely if ever fails.
c. The alarm ECU may have a problem receiving the immobilizer command.
d. The DME ECM may not allow starting once it receives the immobilizer command.
Bottom line: Logical troubleshooting required and an understanding of the 993 systems!
2. "I get the 'click' of the solenoid but starter won't engage."
I. One always needs to fully define one's problem as a no-crank or a no-start situation.
The implication from #2 is that it's a no-crank. If that's the case then;
a. bad starter/solenoid
b. weak starter signal from the ignition switch thru the starter relay, clutch switch, and/or
the alarm ECU.
c. weak battery and/or bad connections
II. If it's truly a no-start then;
a. The immobilizer ECU is not receiving the code signal from the remote.
b. There's a problem with the immobilizer ECU, but the immobilizer ECU is very reliable
and rarely if ever fails.
c. The alarm ECU may have a problem receiving the immobilizer command.
d. The DME ECM may not allow starting once it receives the immobilizer command.
Bottom line: Logical troubleshooting required and an understanding of the 993 systems!
#20
Changed the ignition switch, no help.
Changed the keyway/steering wheel lock, cured.
Best guess is the keyway was very worn, sent junk signals to ecu and it finally cooked.
Gordo
#21
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I. One always needs to fully define one's problem as a no-crank or a no-start situation.
The implication from #2 is that it's a no-crank. If that's the case then;
a. bad starter/solenoid
b. weak starter signal from the ignition switch thru the starter relay, clutch switch, and/or
the alarm ECU.
c. weak battery and/or bad connections
II. If it's truly a no-start then;
a. The immobilizer ECU is not receiving the code signal from the remote.
b. There's a problem with the immobilizer ECU, but the immobilizer ECU is very reliable
and rarely if ever fails.
c. The alarm ECU may have a problem receiving the immobilizer command.
d. The DME ECM may not allow starting once it receives the immobilizer command.
Bottom line: Logical troubleshooting required and an understanding of the 993 systems!
Ugh. Well, it may turn out that way for me as well, we'll see. And .. changing the ignition switch is no walk in the part I have to say .. that top screw on the switch is very inaccessible ..
#22
Ugh. Well, it may turn out that way for me as well, we'll see. And .. changing the ignition switch is no walk in the part I have to say .. that top screw on the switch is very inaccessible ..[/QUOTE]
My body quit bending like that years ago....had the dealer do the work, since they had to order the steering wheel lock anyway.
Surprisingly, only took about 10 days from the factory.
My '95 only had about 80k at the time, but most of my trips are very short...so lots of key use.
I'm careful and much more gentle with the key now.
Gordo
My body quit bending like that years ago....had the dealer do the work, since they had to order the steering wheel lock anyway.
Surprisingly, only took about 10 days from the factory.
My '95 only had about 80k at the time, but most of my trips are very short...so lots of key use.
I'm careful and much more gentle with the key now.
Gordo
#24
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Ok boys and girls, new ignition switch is in, keyway drylubed and cleaned front and back .... going for a drive tomorrow, wish me luck.
#25
"Changed the keyway/steering wheel lock, cured."
That's usually the problem when the immobilizer ECU key coding/programming
fails. The lock itself should not affect the no-crank problem, as that's an electrical
problem, i.e. as long as the mechanical part turns far enough to allow #50 power
(the start voltage) to get to the starter solenoid. Remember, he stated that
he hears the starter solenoid click but not cause the starter to crank.
That's usually the problem when the immobilizer ECU key coding/programming
fails. The lock itself should not affect the no-crank problem, as that's an electrical
problem, i.e. as long as the mechanical part turns far enough to allow #50 power
(the start voltage) to get to the starter solenoid. Remember, he stated that
he hears the starter solenoid click but not cause the starter to crank.
#26
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I would monitor battery drain with the car off. You might have high current draw somewhere and it's messing with the system and/or battery. Also check to see what the battery voltage is with the car off and sitting.
You know if an interior light does't go off, or if you are having CCU issues it will mess with the immobilizer system.
My point is, this could be something very simple.
You know if an interior light does't go off, or if you are having CCU issues it will mess with the immobilizer system.
My point is, this could be something very simple.
#27
"then put a tester across the battery terminals and see if there's any current being drawn by anything?"
A "tester" (ampere meter) is placed in series and not across the battery.
The test current when all systems are a 'sleep' (turned off) is about
30 - 60 ma (.030 - .060 amps). The most problematic ECU from a current
drain standpoint, is the 964/993 CCU which in a few cases fails to fully
turn off causing the battery to drain in about a week.
A "tester" (ampere meter) is placed in series and not across the battery.
The test current when all systems are a 'sleep' (turned off) is about
30 - 60 ma (.030 - .060 amps). The most problematic ECU from a current
drain standpoint, is the 964/993 CCU which in a few cases fails to fully
turn off causing the battery to drain in about a week.
#28
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
^^ thanks Loren.
Ok, so I drove and did stop/start tests for a couple of hours: Immobilizer set by remote, drive block self set etc. ... started every time. Get the car home, pull in garage, shut if off, go to restart it ... and it fails. Fails, fails fails ....
Next up. Clutch microswitch. Anybody know the part number? I looked it up on the PET and it seems to be missing. I can only find the cruise control microswitch #18 in the picture, no clutch microswitch:
.... the one I need is the vertical mounted switch in this picture:
Ok, so I drove and did stop/start tests for a couple of hours: Immobilizer set by remote, drive block self set etc. ... started every time. Get the car home, pull in garage, shut if off, go to restart it ... and it fails. Fails, fails fails ....
Next up. Clutch microswitch. Anybody know the part number? I looked it up on the PET and it seems to be missing. I can only find the cruise control microswitch #18 in the picture, no clutch microswitch:
.... the one I need is the vertical mounted switch in this picture:
#29
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
^^^ BTW .. I DID do the switch "by-pass" mod shown above with a tie wrap .. it closes the switch permanently so the starter isn't disabled ... and so far, the car starts ... but we all know how that goes ...
#30
"it closes the switch permanently so the starter isn't disabled"
Good. Now remember, the starter signal (#50) goes thru a relay
(R61 controlled by the immobilizer ECU and the clutch switch).
To bypass both, jumper pins 30 & 87 on R61. That way the neither
the immobilizer nor the clutch switch will affect cranking.
Good. Now remember, the starter signal (#50) goes thru a relay
(R61 controlled by the immobilizer ECU and the clutch switch).
To bypass both, jumper pins 30 & 87 on R61. That way the neither
the immobilizer nor the clutch switch will affect cranking.