Corteco vs Rein Engine Mounts from Pelican Parts
06-07-2013, 11:16 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Well, I'm just going to muddy the water with this revelation: A few months ago, I ordered the CORTECO mounts from Pelican and didn't think too much about receiving REIN boxes with p/n "AVE0382P replaces 99337504908", especially when the mounts themselves have stickers on them with the PORSCHE "VP" logo and p/n 993.375.049.08". I'm happy with what I got but rather dismayed that Pelican either a)doesn't know what they're selling or b) misrepresenting suppliers.
06-07-2013, 05:27 PM
#19
Hi Guys. I would like to apologize for the confusion here - there unfortunately is no simple answer. I will try to add some clarity however.
Let's start by discussing the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) that sell to the car manufacturers (Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc.). They produce many parts for them for use on new vehicles. I believe this where most of their revenue tends to come from. In addition, they also supply parts for the replacement parts supply chain within the manufacturers dealer network. I.E. they produce parts for Porsche that Porsche then places in their "Genuine Porsche " boxes and sells to their dealers as replacement parts. This business is also lucrative for the OEM manufacturers.
Then, there's the third chain, the one that Pelican taps into (to save everyone money). This is where the OEM manufacturers sell parts directly to Pelican and our suppliers. Sometimes there are contracts that these OEM manufacturers have with the manufacturer (Porsche) that detail that they cannot sell the exact same part through the third channel (outside of the control of Porsche). So, the OEM manufacturer may use many different tricks and loopholes to get around these restrictions. As a side note too, sometimes the OEM manufacturer doesn't even want the car manufacturer (Porsche) to know they are stuffing these parts out the back channel - in reality, sometimes it's difficult to tell where these come from if you're an end-consumer.
So, this is the case with these motor mounts. Rein is a distributor of German parts - they buy parts from the OEM manufacturer and then box them in their own "Rein" branded boxes. This would be the same as if Pelican bought parts in bulk from an OEM manufacturer in Europe and then "reboxed" them into a Pelican box. The mounts are manufactured by a company that is a subsidiary of CFW/Corteco. This company's name (which I have been asked not to post publicly) starts with a "V", and that is why the markings show that.
So, why do the parts not have an OEM part number? Because the manufacturers (Porsche especially) have trademarked their part numbering system and do not allow aftermarket parts to include that part number. It's way more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it. It's also why you might often see a part come in a box that looks brand new, but has a Porsche or BMW logo that was cast into the part - that casting is sometimes ground off. The reason why is because these parts were manufactured using the same molds and tooling used for the Porsche part, but the trademark needs be removed before it can enter the "alternative distribution channel".
Sorry for all the cloak-and-dagger stuff, but getting parts through these channels keeps the aftermarket and companies like Pelican alive and thriving. We can sell the same part from the same manufacturing line as the Genuine part, often for 1/3 the cost or less. Having to deal with these little confusion issues has been something that we've been working with for the past 15 years, and it's just part of the business. In general, it's not something that we like to see discussed in length on discussion boards because it can spook the manufacturers sometimes (this has indeed happened in the past).
I hope this helps to clarify, and thanks everyone for your continued support!
-Wayne
P.S. Pls forgive the "new user" account - my old account was converted over to our Pelican Sponsor account...
Wayne R. Dempsey
CEO, Pelican Parts Inc.
Let's start by discussing the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) that sell to the car manufacturers (Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, etc.). They produce many parts for them for use on new vehicles. I believe this where most of their revenue tends to come from. In addition, they also supply parts for the replacement parts supply chain within the manufacturers dealer network. I.E. they produce parts for Porsche that Porsche then places in their "Genuine Porsche " boxes and sells to their dealers as replacement parts. This business is also lucrative for the OEM manufacturers.
Then, there's the third chain, the one that Pelican taps into (to save everyone money). This is where the OEM manufacturers sell parts directly to Pelican and our suppliers. Sometimes there are contracts that these OEM manufacturers have with the manufacturer (Porsche) that detail that they cannot sell the exact same part through the third channel (outside of the control of Porsche). So, the OEM manufacturer may use many different tricks and loopholes to get around these restrictions. As a side note too, sometimes the OEM manufacturer doesn't even want the car manufacturer (Porsche) to know they are stuffing these parts out the back channel - in reality, sometimes it's difficult to tell where these come from if you're an end-consumer.
So, this is the case with these motor mounts. Rein is a distributor of German parts - they buy parts from the OEM manufacturer and then box them in their own "Rein" branded boxes. This would be the same as if Pelican bought parts in bulk from an OEM manufacturer in Europe and then "reboxed" them into a Pelican box. The mounts are manufactured by a company that is a subsidiary of CFW/Corteco. This company's name (which I have been asked not to post publicly) starts with a "V", and that is why the markings show that.
So, why do the parts not have an OEM part number? Because the manufacturers (Porsche especially) have trademarked their part numbering system and do not allow aftermarket parts to include that part number. It's way more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it. It's also why you might often see a part come in a box that looks brand new, but has a Porsche or BMW logo that was cast into the part - that casting is sometimes ground off. The reason why is because these parts were manufactured using the same molds and tooling used for the Porsche part, but the trademark needs be removed before it can enter the "alternative distribution channel".
Sorry for all the cloak-and-dagger stuff, but getting parts through these channels keeps the aftermarket and companies like Pelican alive and thriving. We can sell the same part from the same manufacturing line as the Genuine part, often for 1/3 the cost or less. Having to deal with these little confusion issues has been something that we've been working with for the past 15 years, and it's just part of the business. In general, it's not something that we like to see discussed in length on discussion boards because it can spook the manufacturers sometimes (this has indeed happened in the past).
I hope this helps to clarify, and thanks everyone for your continued support!
-Wayne
P.S. Pls forgive the "new user" account - my old account was converted over to our Pelican Sponsor account...
Wayne R. Dempsey
CEO, Pelican Parts Inc.
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aguynamedben (11-08-2022)
06-07-2013, 08:27 PM
#20
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Wayne,
I appreciate you chiming in, and I'm not trying to throw you or Pelican Parts under the bus, but you still have not answered either of the questions that I have asked here or in the email dialog with your customer service department.
1. The two mounts that I received in Rein boxes do not have a V stamped on them anywhere. I have looked carefully at every surface. They are only marked 11/47 and 1/4 and 1/5 respectively. Am I to assume that they are Corteco (OEM) per your website or the mystery "V" manufacture that you elude to in your note?
2. You still have not explained why the part number on the Rein box cross references the Porsche part number 993 375 049 08, rather than the 993 375 049 09 part number that I ordered. If the 08 and 09 part are really the same, why do you have them both listed in your catalog as different parts with different applications?
Here is an excerpt from an on-line thread on ebay sales of aftermarket engine mounts that you commented on that I found on a web search::
"Hi everyone. While I cannot say for 100% sure, I would bet that these mounts sold by this eBay vendor are not OEM Corteco mounts. Corteco is an Original Equipment Supplier to Porsche, and provided / manufactured the mounts originally used on the 996 and the Boxster. My cost on the Corteco mounts is higher than this eBay seller is selling them for. I've been in the business now for about 12 years, and I'm pretty confident that we're getting these from our supply chain at one of the best prices available. So, I don't think these are OEM Corteco mounts.
That said, they are probably a Chinese knock-off brand, which we have been seeing a lot of lately. Pelican *does* indeed sometimes sell brands like this because our customers have requested that we stock the same parts as our competitors. The difference is that we clearly label all of the parts in our catalog with the brand and also the *quality* level as determined by a variety of factors (customer feedback, our own evaluations, and the customer return rate to name a few). Providing this information to our customers is one of the reasons why people trust Pelican - when they purchase a part, they know exactly what they are getting. We don't play games with the brand names like a lot of our competitors - we let our customers compare apples to apples.
I would like to have a clear answers as to the application (From your catlaog, it does not appear that the part numbers ending in 08 and 09 as your customer service advised my via email and whether or not the parts I received are Corteco.
Feel free to PM me your response if you would rather. I have been trying to get the answers to these simple questions from your customer service department for two days now and have wasted way to much of my time.
Thanks.
I appreciate you chiming in, and I'm not trying to throw you or Pelican Parts under the bus, but you still have not answered either of the questions that I have asked here or in the email dialog with your customer service department.
1. The two mounts that I received in Rein boxes do not have a V stamped on them anywhere. I have looked carefully at every surface. They are only marked 11/47 and 1/4 and 1/5 respectively. Am I to assume that they are Corteco (OEM) per your website or the mystery "V" manufacture that you elude to in your note?
2. You still have not explained why the part number on the Rein box cross references the Porsche part number 993 375 049 08, rather than the 993 375 049 09 part number that I ordered. If the 08 and 09 part are really the same, why do you have them both listed in your catalog as different parts with different applications?
Here is an excerpt from an on-line thread on ebay sales of aftermarket engine mounts that you commented on that I found on a web search::
"Hi everyone. While I cannot say for 100% sure, I would bet that these mounts sold by this eBay vendor are not OEM Corteco mounts. Corteco is an Original Equipment Supplier to Porsche, and provided / manufactured the mounts originally used on the 996 and the Boxster. My cost on the Corteco mounts is higher than this eBay seller is selling them for. I've been in the business now for about 12 years, and I'm pretty confident that we're getting these from our supply chain at one of the best prices available. So, I don't think these are OEM Corteco mounts.
That said, they are probably a Chinese knock-off brand, which we have been seeing a lot of lately. Pelican *does* indeed sometimes sell brands like this because our customers have requested that we stock the same parts as our competitors. The difference is that we clearly label all of the parts in our catalog with the brand and also the *quality* level as determined by a variety of factors (customer feedback, our own evaluations, and the customer return rate to name a few). Providing this information to our customers is one of the reasons why people trust Pelican - when they purchase a part, they know exactly what they are getting. We don't play games with the brand names like a lot of our competitors - we let our customers compare apples to apples.
I would like to have a clear answers as to the application (From your catlaog, it does not appear that the part numbers ending in 08 and 09 as your customer service advised my via email and whether or not the parts I received are Corteco.
Feel free to PM me your response if you would rather. I have been trying to get the answers to these simple questions from your customer service department for two days now and have wasted way to much of my time.
Thanks.
07-21-2013, 09:17 PM
#23
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Yep, and when I did from Pelican got Rein...just like this thread. I honestly should send them back bc they are not nearly as nice as the Wevo Black I bought for another car. Plus when I order company A and get company B...that is not good. Especially when I have researched company A.
07-22-2013, 12:18 PM
#24
Yes, you should send them back. I don't think there is anything wrong selling the Rein mounts but that is not what is advertised in the catalog. There should be a correction or explanation for the consumer.
07-22-2013, 02:12 PM
#25
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The other issue is that what they are selling actually have absolutely nothing in common with C4 mounts, which are hydraulic...
Last edited by JasonAndreas; 07-22-2013 at 08:04 PM.
07-22-2013, 08:11 PM
#27
Hi again everyone. As I mentioned above, Rein = distributor, not a manufacturer (they don't make *anything*). Corteco is the manufacturer of the part inside. In most cases, you're not going to find any marks on this mount that indicates this is manufactured by Corteco - due to restrictions selling into the aftermarket, they have been removed (explained above).
As for the two different part numbers, I have no idea. Everyone else I've asked (suppliers, etc.) have no idea either. Porsche still has these two part numbers listed in their catalog. The parts look identical. It could be related to the viscosity of the fluid inside the mounts, but I have no idea. Porsche's data is inconsistent on this - the parts are still listed individually by Porsche. It could be that they have superseded the part and they are waiting for the -08 model inventory to clear out. It could be that they had a different manufacturer for the fluid inside the mount, and that caused the -09 part number change? There's not much way of telling, unfortunately.
Bottomline, we've sold a ton of these mounts with hardly any issues or complaints. We've sold 185 of these in the last year, with one return. I called over to our supplier, they've sold 967 of these in the past 18 months with 5 warranty claims. These are both very good numbers. If anyone is unhappy with the mounts for any reason, they are more than happy to return them to Pelican for a full refund.
-Wayne
As for the two different part numbers, I have no idea. Everyone else I've asked (suppliers, etc.) have no idea either. Porsche still has these two part numbers listed in their catalog. The parts look identical. It could be related to the viscosity of the fluid inside the mounts, but I have no idea. Porsche's data is inconsistent on this - the parts are still listed individually by Porsche. It could be that they have superseded the part and they are waiting for the -08 model inventory to clear out. It could be that they had a different manufacturer for the fluid inside the mount, and that caused the -09 part number change? There's not much way of telling, unfortunately.
Bottomline, we've sold a ton of these mounts with hardly any issues or complaints. We've sold 185 of these in the last year, with one return. I called over to our supplier, they've sold 967 of these in the past 18 months with 5 warranty claims. These are both very good numbers. If anyone is unhappy with the mounts for any reason, they are more than happy to return them to Pelican for a full refund.
-Wayne
08-03-2013, 06:00 PM
#28
Drifting
Sorry to chime in with a novice question...but how do you know if you should replace the engine mounts? Is visual inspection possible?
I have a '96 C4S with 30k miles.
I have a '96 C4S with 30k miles.
08-03-2013, 11:56 PM
#29
You may notice one or both of your muffler tips "sagging" (the gap between the bumper and tips growing) over time. Also, there may be a small increase in engine vibration into the cabin.