JoeFromPA

heheh,that reminds me of the business plan:

1. Start the business
2. ....
3. Make money

I'm wondering if I should simply help my buddy setup a custom fabrication shop for the 993 or older AC 911s. It's his passion (fabrication), it's where there appears to be more interest, etc.

Btw, my buddy is winding down his BMW resto/fab business because he realized he doesn't want to RUN a business - he wants to do the craftsmanship.

kjr914

He doesn't want to run a business, but you do. So go run his. With his existing customers, you can learn the ropes, then branch out to Porsche later. If its not profitable, go make it so, or learn why it isn't before you try to start from ground zero.

Ed Hughes

I don't see how 10-15% margin on middle of the road 993's is a sustainable business plan.

justin993

I'm from the area and bobt993 is right on the money on shops in this area. Probably not represented on Rennlist, but there are a huge number of p-cars in the Philly area and suburbs.
We are also fortunate that we have as many independents as we do - many of the ones mentioned above in the West Chester/Malvern area.

The other issue would be how the hell you would make a profit as a boutique 993 seller. I know personally that Holt is EXTREMELY selective when buying 911s - mostly air cooled, but also newer. They look at countless cars and have many connections that point them to cars, just to get the ones they have and fill the show room. He has been around these cars almost as long as they have been in production. Point is, I think you'd have to be one of the foremost experts in the country on air cooled 911s to turn a profit.

And at this point the high end collectable market is so efficient, that anything worth buying, be it Ferrrari/Porsche, is snatched up right away by the huge network of experts that are out there. I'm sure the OP is super knowledgeable on these cars if he is seriously considering this as a business, but I really think one with limited resources, time in the game, and experience would be hard press to find even 5 air cooled cars a year that could turn a nice profit.

JoeFromPA

Gents (and ladies if there were any) - Thank you for the continued feedback and challenging of the business proposition. This is what I needed. My friendhas experience selling desirable vehicles for a tidy profit and did it on restored e30s a good bit as well when the entry price was $2-3k and exit price was $7-8k but included alot of work in the interim and would barely turn a profit. It became too much about volume for him, which clashed with his desirable to focus on the creative side of things.

Let me state one thing and then quickly move on: I assessed the marketplace for a few days before I ever started the original post here. I have some confidence that I could locate, purchase, and sell 5-6 mid-market 993s / month (obviously not the same ones each month) on average. I felt that there is a space for a mid-market purveyor that would take on variants that Holt-etc. doesn't always pick up because they are slightly below their threshold. My goal on, say, a $35k private party vehicle would have been to pick it up at $33k and aim to resell it for $37-38k.

Understand that such a business has little overhead and could, potentially, operate on a gross margin of $300k/year. Especially when it's more a passion that would fuel the side business.

That being said I have heard clearly that the forum does not view this as a viable business and I take the advice seriously, and will seriously reconsider my options including:

- moving away from the dealership model
- focusing exclusively on the custom side of things
- expanding to a much wider variety of 911s

At the heart of this is a passion for AC p-cars and a desire to run a fun and reputable business surrounded by the beauty and adrenaline there-in. We'll see where it goes.

JoeFromPA

One more thing while this thread is still fairly active:

What do members see as desirable standalone unique parts?

From a style perspective, I see there being potential interest in the following areas:

- Custom designed plug-n-play seating that matches interiors perfectly, adds some flair, but uses an existing well regarded base frame for safety.
- More options for 3-spoke steering wheels that would accept the requisite airbag
- Custom dash in-lays or designs
- An integrated lightweight system to replace the rear seats/bench, while still allowing some storage/utility, that would also work with roll-bars

I'm also interested in finding or working around non--critical, mechanical parts that could be re-designed for weight savings, especially at the extreme ends of the car, while still maintaining a daily driver personality.

I would welcome any other off-the-top-of-your-head ideas that could involve bodywork of mechanical bits as well, realizing that we're not WEVO engineers either and aren't going to come out with a set of suspension bits that improve geometry while allowing more dynamic camber

Cactus

So from what I gather this will be a hobby and you have plenty of money to play. Sounds good to me...when is the Grand Opening? Oh and lots of carbon fiber stuff at decent prices

race911

Pass along your liability insurance carrier? My cousin (the 910/907/908/917 guy in the link below) and I have had something on the shelf for probably five years now that we dare not put out there because of product liability issues. Yes, similar is in the marketplace by at least one company that, well, who you gonna go after in China? No, it's nothing that would remotely step on your toes here.

JoeFromPA

Hi Race,

Custom upholstery and surface level design of such pieces shouldn't impact the liability - it's similar to taking your seats/steering wheel to a local guy to re-do the leather. That's just my take of course and I would follow-up on that.

Now if you are modifying the airbag carrier, or modifying the seat frame, I can see a liability issue there...

Realizing that's an optimistic take on it and a bulldog lawyer could probably make a case.

FinPat

Based on my limited understanding of the market there certainly are few niche product classes which are currently poorly addressed by vendors:

1) Rear seat delete - Even Porsche OEM RSD is tad flimsy. I would expect one could create a high quality, aesthetic and cost effective solution here.
2) Other RS-type of light weight, high quality and aesthetic interior bits and pieces.

Byprodriver

Joe, start out slowly doing what you want to do with 1 or 2 cars. Create demand for your cars & services. Expand as a result of demand from others not your dreams. Oh & don't pass up any great deals on great cars.

TheBen

Don't get me wrong - it would be amazing to have a porsche 993 boutique making things that are in demand, or nla, or just hard to get (How about converting some standard seats into sport seats, etc) but on your end you guys need to do some thinking about how to sustain a business at it.

Academictech

Joe, if you're not an IB rep trying to add traffic to a forum...your thread will probably go viral as one of the all time greats.

Since you're trolling here for business ideas; here's a tried and true method to get the customer profile list you want without spending much on a storefront or inventory.

1. Scour the internet for detailed images of a very nice low mileage 993, preferably wide-body.
2. Cut and paste all images onto your hard drive
3. Photoshop images of onto a background with a building of your choice
4. Photoshop your custom 993 shop name onto the building
5. Create an advertisement to sell the car at a great price
6. Advertise on craigslist, ebay, autotrader, cars.com, PCA and Panorama
7. Allow only email responds to your advertisements
8. Don't respond to any of the multitude of emails you get
9. Voila. You have your potential customer list.

On a serious note....good luck with your business ideas....all things 993 are great!

solomonschris

I am just astounded at what thoughtful advice you've been given here. I will offer some non specific advice given to me as a young man by one of the wisest men I've known. "When considering any business venture, consider your unfair advantage. If you have one and you are honest and you work hard, you will probably succeed. If you don't have an unfair advantage, the one who does will succeed". This has worked for me for 35 yrs. of small business operation. Good luck with whatever you pursue.

Chris M.

Or a less expensive Singer type thing. The interest in those cars is massive but the price tag is way out of 99% of Porsche enthusiasts' budgets.