AX fun (Other car = Avant)
12-16-2012, 06:37 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
AX fun (Other car = Avant)
Had some fun yesterday in San Diego.
Once a year we do an "other car" event and I left the 993 @ home.
The Avants dynamics are a bit...... different.
Apexing something this long is a bit more challenging!
Experienced a bit more body roll too, but not nearly as much as the Subie wagon I drove last year.
KJR914 and flatsixforme joined the fun.
Adam drove Ruby, his 993 and was ~ 6 seconds a lap faster.
1:09s vs 1:03s!
Unfortunately the rain stopped too early or times may have been closer....
Craig
Craig
Once a year we do an "other car" event and I left the 993 @ home.
The Avants dynamics are a bit...... different.
Apexing something this long is a bit more challenging!
Experienced a bit more body roll too, but not nearly as much as the Subie wagon I drove last year.
KJR914 and flatsixforme joined the fun.
Adam drove Ruby, his 993 and was ~ 6 seconds a lap faster.
1:09s vs 1:03s!
Unfortunately the rain stopped too early or times may have been closer....
Craig
Craig
12-16-2012, 07:06 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's always fun to jump into another car, ain't it? As an instructor I have a chance to do so through the year. And we have a B7 S4 locally so I've had the pleasure of pushing it through the course a few times. Interesting 
From the pics... you are overdriving the dickens out of it. We can analyze pic #3 if you're interested. It takes some serous dialing down to be smoother and faster in a large heavy car. Not as easy as it sounds, actually. Oh, snap, for me a 993 is a large heavy car
From the pics... you are overdriving the dickens out of it. We can analyze pic #3 if you're interested. It takes some serous dialing down to be smoother and faster in a large heavy car. Not as easy as it sounds, actually. Oh, snap, for me a 993 is a large heavy car
12-16-2012, 08:54 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
12-17-2012, 01:25 AM
#5
Drifting
Craig has nicely omitted that in our Wagon-vs-Wagon Part Duex, he clobbered me this year! Last year different story, with me in my '09 Avant and he in the "Wallow-mobile" Subi Outback (with the 3.2L 6cyl, however), with me delivering a 3+sec whoopin'.
However, this year it was much more even 09 vs 11 Avant. And my times were in the high 1:10's and Craig was into the 1:09 range. (no official timing, so we were just remembering as we drove through the finish, so exact numbers are fuzzy)
Excuse List:
1. Craig has the 8 spd tranny vs my 6 spd.
2. Craig has 19's with lower profile, sporty tires. My 18's have uber high profile, cheap tires the dealer put on.
3. Craig has paddle shifters.
4. I'm sure I missed a good one...
Despite all that, really Craig was just driving the wheels off the thing! Congrats Craig! But next year....
Require Pics for fun...
No cool body roll shots like Craig, but I'll take this placement...
Note corner worker sprinting for downed cones in the wake of flatsixforme, Mr. "Spin-to-Win".
However, this year it was much more even 09 vs 11 Avant. And my times were in the high 1:10's and Craig was into the 1:09 range. (no official timing, so we were just remembering as we drove through the finish, so exact numbers are fuzzy)
Excuse List:
1. Craig has the 8 spd tranny vs my 6 spd.
2. Craig has 19's with lower profile, sporty tires. My 18's have uber high profile, cheap tires the dealer put on.
3. Craig has paddle shifters.
4. I'm sure I missed a good one...
Despite all that, really Craig was just driving the wheels off the thing! Congrats Craig! But next year....
Require Pics for fun...
No cool body roll shots like Craig, but I'll take this placement...
Note corner worker sprinting for downed cones in the wake of flatsixforme, Mr. "Spin-to-Win".
Last edited by kjr914; 12-17-2012 at 01:55 AM.
12-17-2012, 02:08 AM
#6
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Keith, you placement seems pretty nice. I'd be curious to know what the next element is and where it is.
The flatsixforme on that pic, however... a dissertation can be written about that shot Tell me what seems obviously wrong with it. Just for my own self-deprecation I'll include one "don't drive like me" pic here that we can equally discuss
The flatsixforme on that pic, however... a dissertation can be written about that shot
Tell me what seems obviously wrong with it. Just for my own self-deprecation I'll include one "don't drive like me" pic here that we can equally discuss
12-17-2012, 02:37 AM
#7
Pro
Craig,
I can see the understeer of that wagon just by looking at the picture. Otherwise it's the best looking Avant Audi makes. Like the rims too.
Ed
I can see the understeer of that wagon just by looking at the picture. Otherwise it's the best looking Avant Audi makes. Like the rims too.
Ed
Trending Topics
12-17-2012, 12:38 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
12-17-2012, 01:23 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Craig and Keith, it was fun to watch those wagons battle it out! My best time was a 1.02.95 which I think was good for 2nd TTOD...not bad for mismatched tires
12-17-2012, 02:15 PM
#10
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Adam, I see the car braking fairly heavily right at the cone. That's one issue. I can't see what's before it or what's coming next but it's usually best to brake earlier and be at a constant speed or slightly accelerating through slalom.
You seem to be fronting this cone at the picture. It might be my imagination, but based on where you are looking and where your passenger is looking it appears that you should be unwinding the wheel by now. You right hand is on top of the wheel telling me that you are both braking and still turning car to the left, thus being pretty late around that cone. It might be the only way yo rotate around that particular cone and set for that slalom - I don't know that, of course, as we can't see what's before it. But I would still try to brake somewhere earlier to have the car set for that first cone at the right speed and the right angle.
What is really good that you are very close to the cone. I'd just want to be more on the back side of it.
That's just my $0,02 cents from this pic.
BTW, I have a little video that might explain what I am saying. We can talk about it if it helps, but it make obvious why a slow car can compete with fast car: http://mikest.com/Cars/ConeiPod.mp4 See the tire angle, distance to the cone and, especially, where the two cars point at :21 and :52 when they cross teh yellow line for comparison. This is a start of a slalom. I'm hoping it might make things a bit clearer.
You seem to be fronting this cone at the picture. It might be my imagination, but based on where you are looking and where your passenger is looking it appears that you should be unwinding the wheel by now. You right hand is on top of the wheel telling me that you are both braking and still turning car to the left, thus being pretty late around that cone. It might be the only way yo rotate around that particular cone and set for that slalom - I don't know that, of course, as we can't see what's before it. But I would still try to brake somewhere earlier to have the car set for that first cone at the right speed and the right angle.
What is really good that you are very close to the cone. I'd just want to be more on the back side of it.
That's just my $0,02 cents from this pic.
BTW, I have a little video that might explain what I am saying. We can talk about it if it helps, but it make obvious why a slow car can compete with fast car: http://mikest.com/Cars/ConeiPod.mp4 See the tire angle, distance to the cone and, especially, where the two cars point at :21 and :52 when they cross teh yellow line for comparison. This is a start of a slalom. I'm hoping it might make things a bit clearer.
Last edited by nile13; 12-17-2012 at 02:31 PM.
12-17-2012, 02:52 PM
#11
Huh...who knew that posting a few pics from a fun weekend event would compel driving critiques from readers? This makes me feel less bad about skipping Saturday's event because I thought the rain would persist throughout the day (it didn't)...
12-17-2012, 03:13 PM
#12
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Don't know about you, I am usually willing to pay anything for "driving critiques". That's the only way to improve. Oh, and "fun weekend event" for some is actual competition for others.
12-17-2012, 03:30 PM
#13
I'm all about improving...Just didn't see anyone ask for input. No worries--it's all good. Oh--and this was an "Other Car" event...no timing, etc. as season had already ended. So--I think "fun weekend event" counts. Happy motoring!
12-17-2012, 03:37 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Adam, I see the car braking fairly heavily right at the cone. That's one issue. I can't see what's before it or what's coming next but it's usually best to brake earlier and be at a constant speed or slightly accelerating through slalom.
You seem to be fronting this cone at the picture. It might be my imagination, but based on where you are looking and where your passenger is looking it appears that you should be unwinding the wheel by now. You right hand is on top of the wheel telling me that you are both braking and still turning car to the left, thus being pretty late around that cone. It might be the only way yo rotate around that particular cone and set for that slalom - I don't know that, of course, as we can't see what's before it. But I would still try to brake somewhere earlier to have the car set for that first cone at the right speed and the right angle.
What is really good that you are very close to the cone. I'd just want to be more on the back side of it.
That's just my $0,02 cents from this pic.
BTW, I have a little video that might explain what I am saying. We can talk about it if it helps, but it make obvious why a slow car can compete with fast car: http://mikest.com/Cars/ConeiPod.mp4 See the tire angle, distance to the cone and, especially, where the two cars point at :21 and :52 when they cross teh yellow line for comparison. This is a start of a slalom. I'm hoping it might make things a bit clearer.
You seem to be fronting this cone at the picture. It might be my imagination, but based on where you are looking and where your passenger is looking it appears that you should be unwinding the wheel by now. You right hand is on top of the wheel telling me that you are both braking and still turning car to the left, thus being pretty late around that cone. It might be the only way yo rotate around that particular cone and set for that slalom - I don't know that, of course, as we can't see what's before it. But I would still try to brake somewhere earlier to have the car set for that first cone at the right speed and the right angle.
What is really good that you are very close to the cone. I'd just want to be more on the back side of it.
That's just my $0,02 cents from this pic.
BTW, I have a little video that might explain what I am saying. We can talk about it if it helps, but it make obvious why a slow car can compete with fast car: http://mikest.com/Cars/ConeiPod.mp4 See the tire angle, distance to the cone and, especially, where the two cars point at :21 and :52 when they cross teh yellow line for comparison. This is a start of a slalom. I'm hoping it might make things a bit clearer.
I appreciate your driving enthusiasm and willingness to extend any knowledge you have gained participating in performance driving events over the years. I enjoy talking driving technique and like all of us enjoy becoming a better driver as it truly is a sport where you never stop learning. I tend to agree with what you are saying about driving technique through a slalom in general; however, as you have elluded to a couple times in this thread, you don't know what element is before or after what we see in the picture. Without this context and some relative perspective of the course it is pretty hard to critique, let alone write a dissertation (or one with any real accurate correlations to a particular picture). For example, in my picture, I don't know which of the slalom cones that was so I can't add any color. To my eye, it is very difficult from the picture to determine if I am "braking heavily" at that cone or if in fact my car is already set, the passenger side suspension loaded and the car in mid-roatation. Based on the relative rake of the car front to rear and knowing that this is approximately the same rake my car has standing still I would tend to say the car already set and that I am not on the brakes. If I were on the brakes I would see a much greater negative front end rake. Again, we would need more context. This same line of thinking applies to all your comments and a I guess I don't see how much we can learn without knowing more.
I think the spirit of this thread has been lost, it was supposed to be some fun pictures of our last non-points event of the season where Craig and Keith had an Audi wagon shoot-out. If it were a "critique my driving" thread then that would be different and I'm sure you would give some insightful input.
12-17-2012, 04:25 PM
#15
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Adam, "dissertation" comment was just a joke on my part. Sorry it got lost, especially given the thread's nature.
One thing I'll say if I may - I'd be accelerating though that point around the cone or I'd be farther toward the back side of the cone, depending on what's coming next. Looking at the rake, it's not acceleration, so the comments mostly stem from that.
PS. Can't help it, I'm a better instructor than a driver. After instructing for that many years and events it's hard to stop Hope you take it as such, just trying to help a bit when and where I can. It's all good.
One thing I'll say if I may - I'd be accelerating though that point around the cone or I'd be farther toward the back side of the cone, depending on what's coming next. Looking at the rake, it's not acceleration, so the comments mostly stem from that.
PS. Can't help it, I'm a better instructor than a driver. After instructing for that many years and events it's hard to stop
Hope you take it as such, just trying to help a bit when and where I can. It's all good.