In Need of a Sanity Check - Tried and Failed to Line Up a Detail at Auto Concierge
05-31-2012, 12:40 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Perhaps all of this could have been avoided if the OP's request for the line items was fulfilled, thus allowing him to pick and choose services as he apparently stated at the outset. He has no idea what each item is going to cost, so why not ask for the full course pricing? Providing detailed quotes is an elemental business task. I did them all of the time when I was a photographer and never, ever balked at having to show how much each service cost.
At no point in the missives did I get any indication that the OP, who demonstrated a great deal of respect, was haggling the price and that fact, along with the unfulfilled line item request, is the reason for this unfortunate thread.
At no point in the missives did I get any indication that the OP, who demonstrated a great deal of respect, was haggling the price and that fact, along with the unfulfilled line item request, is the reason for this unfortunate thread.
05-31-2012, 01:35 PM
#51
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't know either of these folks, but if you view detailing as an artistic endeavor, which I think it is if done correctly -- you use your knowledge and experience to choose the correct technique and product to get the results you want, being mindful of the depth of the paint and the other surfaces you are working on -- then the only way to properly estimate a job is by the hours you expect to spend on it.
This is not dissimilar to what I do, which is graphic design. If you came to me and said you want me to design a 40-page magazine for you, I can tell you that I might charge, say, $10,000 at $100 per hour, but there's no way I can sit there and accurately say X hours to come up with a cover concept, X hours to research and edit photographs, X hours to color correct images, X hours to design, X hours to proof, X hours to make revisions and corrections ... it's just impossibly tedious to try and do that. If I get inspired, I might finish early and make more money. It's more likely that I will get hung up on certain things and go way over the hourly budget, but not charge any more than I said I would. It's the nature of the beast.
It would have been better for the detailer to say, this is what it costs to have your car look as good as I can possibly make it, and I don't offer a la carte services, and be done with it.
Using another car as some sort of pricing template and comparison doesn't work, it's never apples to apples, so I think that probably started everything off on the wrong foot here.
This is not dissimilar to what I do, which is graphic design. If you came to me and said you want me to design a 40-page magazine for you, I can tell you that I might charge, say, $10,000 at $100 per hour, but there's no way I can sit there and accurately say X hours to come up with a cover concept, X hours to research and edit photographs, X hours to color correct images, X hours to design, X hours to proof, X hours to make revisions and corrections ... it's just impossibly tedious to try and do that. If I get inspired, I might finish early and make more money. It's more likely that I will get hung up on certain things and go way over the hourly budget, but not charge any more than I said I would. It's the nature of the beast.
It would have been better for the detailer to say, this is what it costs to have your car look as good as I can possibly make it, and I don't offer a la carte services, and be done with it.
Using another car as some sort of pricing template and comparison doesn't work, it's never apples to apples, so I think that probably started everything off on the wrong foot here.
05-31-2012, 04:39 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Is it just me but for the fact OP posting this thread in the first place the detailer made the right call ?
Only thing is the detailer should stand by his decision and let OP be a
Only thing is the detailer should stand by his decision and let OP be a
05-31-2012, 04:51 PM
#54
Race Director
I don't know either of these folks, but if you view detailing as an artistic endeavor, which I think it is if done correctly -- you use your knowledge and experience to choose the correct technique and product to get the results you want, being mindful of the depth of the paint and the other surfaces you are working on -- then the only way to properly estimate a job is by the hours you expect to spend on it.
This is not dissimilar to what I do, which is graphic design. If you came to me and said you want me to design a 40-page magazine for you, I can tell you that I might charge, say, $10,000 at $100 per hour, but there's no way I can sit there and accurately say X hours to come up with a cover concept, X hours to research and edit photographs, X hours to color correct images, X hours to design, X hours to proof, X hours to make revisions and corrections ... it's just impossibly tedious to try and do that. If I get inspired, I might finish early and make more money. It's more likely that I will get hung up on certain things and go way over the hourly budget, but not charge any more than I said I would. It's the nature of the beast.
It would have been better for the detailer to say, this is what it costs to have your car look as good as I can possibly make it, and I don't offer a la carte services, and be done with it.
Using another car as some sort of pricing template and comparison doesn't work, it's never apples to apples, so I think that probably started everything off on the wrong foot here.
This is not dissimilar to what I do, which is graphic design. If you came to me and said you want me to design a 40-page magazine for you, I can tell you that I might charge, say, $10,000 at $100 per hour, but there's no way I can sit there and accurately say X hours to come up with a cover concept, X hours to research and edit photographs, X hours to color correct images, X hours to design, X hours to proof, X hours to make revisions and corrections ... it's just impossibly tedious to try and do that. If I get inspired, I might finish early and make more money. It's more likely that I will get hung up on certain things and go way over the hourly budget, but not charge any more than I said I would. It's the nature of the beast.
It would have been better for the detailer to say, this is what it costs to have your car look as good as I can possibly make it, and I don't offer a la carte services, and be done with it.
Using another car as some sort of pricing template and comparison doesn't work, it's never apples to apples, so I think that probably started everything off on the wrong foot here.
While it is probably rare for your to do only job x or job y as opposed to the entire magazine, detailers commonly just do exterior paint correction, just interiors, etc.
I've detailed cars as a hobby. Once you see a car, you generally get a pretty good idea of what you're working with. Before I took a job, i asked the customer if I could do a 1' by 1' test spot to see what product worked the best. Typically m105 or even m205 would knock out the majority of the swirling and flaws with a flex, although rids or heavy swirling/oxidation took more time. That said, I sometimes miss estimated and would have to approach the owner to see what they wanted to do.
To stick to an estimate that was created before the first pad touches the car is silly and probably why you didn't want to line item the bid.
05-31-2012, 05:46 PM
#56
05-31-2012, 09:02 PM
#58
to OP...title "In Need of a Sanity Check - Tried and Failed to Line Up a Detail at Auto Concierge"
really?
title should have been...im an immature idiot.
First you go in with a wishy washy not sure what i want attitude...get a quote for 'the works'...that included an hourly rate...and you can't figure out what you want.
btw...he did give you a 'line item' quote...it's $1500 @ $65/hr to do 'the works' you requested he quote you...it's you that need to figure out/prioritize wtf you want done...if you need a 'payment plan' approach to have everything done...you should have given him your priority list and said I am willing to spend $1000 now...get as far along that priority list as you can at $65/hr...and when I am ready for the next 'payment'...I will bring the car back and you can finish the 'rest' of the list. he would complete all the items for the quoted amount...in fact...as he indicated...sometimes he finds 'problems' that require more time than he thought...and still sticks to original quote. you were wasting his time beyond that with other requests.
Robert sized you up...like most smart businesses do...decided you were going to be more trouble than you were worth and told you 'it will not be a good fit.'
from your response...posting like a child here trying to damage his reputation (why else would you name his business/post private emails)...his decision was spot on.
sorry...what exactly did robert do wrong here - he sized up a customer - made the decision it would not be a good fit - and told the customer that. any mature/secure individual would have simply taken their business elsewhere if they felt they were right.
the only profession in which the customer is always right is prostitution...smart businesses...especially smaller ones who can size up their customer and determine who is going to be more trouble than they are worth do quite well...they will have great customers...with repeat business...and their employee turnover will be less as they won't be burned out dealing with problem customers.
i have met robert...have seen his work and it is impeccable. he is a straight shooter/no nonsense guy (iirc military background) that truly takes pride in his work. you could eat off the floor of his shop...i want that guy detailing my car...in fact he is...next friday.
those of you who have made rash decisions to not use his services based on a petty retaliatory thread like this without doing your homework are the ones that will lose out.
OP please don't respond to me...i've got three kids and that's enough.
really?
title should have been...im an immature idiot.
First you go in with a wishy washy not sure what i want attitude...get a quote for 'the works'...that included an hourly rate...and you can't figure out what you want.
btw...he did give you a 'line item' quote...it's $1500 @ $65/hr to do 'the works' you requested he quote you...it's you that need to figure out/prioritize wtf you want done...if you need a 'payment plan' approach to have everything done...you should have given him your priority list and said I am willing to spend $1000 now...get as far along that priority list as you can at $65/hr...and when I am ready for the next 'payment'...I will bring the car back and you can finish the 'rest' of the list. he would complete all the items for the quoted amount...in fact...as he indicated...sometimes he finds 'problems' that require more time than he thought...and still sticks to original quote. you were wasting his time beyond that with other requests.
Robert sized you up...like most smart businesses do...decided you were going to be more trouble than you were worth and told you 'it will not be a good fit.'
from your response...posting like a child here trying to damage his reputation (why else would you name his business/post private emails)...his decision was spot on.
sorry...what exactly did robert do wrong here - he sized up a customer - made the decision it would not be a good fit - and told the customer that. any mature/secure individual would have simply taken their business elsewhere if they felt they were right.
the only profession in which the customer is always right is prostitution...smart businesses...especially smaller ones who can size up their customer and determine who is going to be more trouble than they are worth do quite well...they will have great customers...with repeat business...and their employee turnover will be less as they won't be burned out dealing with problem customers.
i have met robert...have seen his work and it is impeccable. he is a straight shooter/no nonsense guy (iirc military background) that truly takes pride in his work. you could eat off the floor of his shop...i want that guy detailing my car...in fact he is...next friday.
those of you who have made rash decisions to not use his services based on a petty retaliatory thread like this without doing your homework are the ones that will lose out.
OP please don't respond to me...i've got three kids and that's enough.
05-31-2012, 09:29 PM
#60
