Challenges with tire sizes for DE
05-10-2012, 01:38 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Is it possible that the compounds are different US vs. Europe!?
We run the endurance races with the Hankook RS-2 (mandatory tire for all participants) so I can safely say that I have "tested" them thoroughly.
The level of grip is no where near that of the R888s. On a typical track we run there is about 2sec difference between the two tires. Looking at the data from the vbox there is also big difference in the braking points, cornering speeds and median speed. The Hankooks also squeal quite a bit (just like street tires), therefore I consider them more like performance street tire rather than all-track R-compound.
On the other hand I don't consider the R888 a street tire (even though it's legally so), they are quite horrible; noisy, like to tramline and far from safe during rain.
That said, the Hankooks are super durable. We can run a 6hour race (abt. 150-200 laps) with a set and there is still plenty of speed left in them. I don't think we could do the same with the R888...
We run the endurance races with the Hankook RS-2 (mandatory tire for all participants) so I can safely say that I have "tested" them thoroughly.
The level of grip is no where near that of the R888s. On a typical track we run there is about 2sec difference between the two tires. Looking at the data from the vbox there is also big difference in the braking points, cornering speeds and median speed. The Hankooks also squeal quite a bit (just like street tires), therefore I consider them more like performance street tire rather than all-track R-compound.
On the other hand I don't consider the R888 a street tire (even though it's legally so), they are quite horrible; noisy, like to tramline and far from safe during rain.
That said, the Hankooks are super durable. We can run a 6hour race (abt. 150-200 laps) with a set and there is still plenty of speed left in them. I don't think we could do the same with the R888...
And NO street tire can compare, feature-for-feature, to an R compound. Yet.
But if you're going R compound, there's a pretty broad agreement that the 888 was a HUGE step in the wrong direction from an RA1. So much so, that Toyo reintroduced it; and the spec series that mandated their use backtracked (Spec Miata, Spec 911, and probably Spec E30). While grip on the sweet spot may be similar, there were massive complaints over longevity and useful life.
For DE purposes, maybe not so noticeable. For a Spec Miata, and having to roll out with a fresh set for each race? Noticeable.
05-10-2012, 01:50 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Seriously doubt compounds are different.
And NO street tire can compare, feature-for-feature, to an R compound. Yet.
But if you're going R compound, there's a pretty broad agreement that the 888 was a HUGE step in the wrong direction from an RA1. So much so, that Toyo reintroduced it; and the spec series that mandated their use backtracked (Spec Miata, Spec 911, and probably Spec E30). While grip on the sweet spot may be similar, there were massive complaints over longevity and useful life.
For DE purposes, maybe not so noticeable. For a Spec Miata, and having to roll out with a fresh set for each race? Noticeable.
And NO street tire can compare, feature-for-feature, to an R compound. Yet.
But if you're going R compound, there's a pretty broad agreement that the 888 was a HUGE step in the wrong direction from an RA1. So much so, that Toyo reintroduced it; and the spec series that mandated their use backtracked (Spec Miata, Spec 911, and probably Spec E30). While grip on the sweet spot may be similar, there were massive complaints over longevity and useful life.
For DE purposes, maybe not so noticeable. For a Spec Miata, and having to roll out with a fresh set for each race? Noticeable.
I think the R888 is a great DE tire. I can easily run 6-7 DE's with a set. Maybe I could run 12 with the Hankooks but I don't really care because I usually won't do more then 6 track days a year with the 993. It is perfectly ok to buy a set of tires per season.
The R888s are usually corded before the speed scrubs off. Or maybe I am just slower in the beginning of season...?
05-10-2012, 12:19 PM
#18
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I think there is a lot more to consider in the equation (r888) like outside air temprature, weight of the car etc. I think here in scandinavia it's usually much colder than in the US during out track events. The r888s are known to be fast right off the bat (in cold weather) whereas they tend to be too soft when it's really hot outside. That might be one reason why we in scandinavia like them better than you guys in the US. MPCSs for example are also popular over here, but the negative feedback they get is that they suck in the rain and that it takes long to get them to operation temps, especially in the early spring and late fall track events. Another good thing about the r888 is that they are available in many sizes. It's really about the only R-comp that are available in wide sizes in 18" over here and it's also approved for use in Europe unlike the NT01 for example.
Also don't forget the Michelin Super Sport. For mixed driving they are great, much faster than the PS2s for example and they last forever. Do a search here on the forum for "MPSS" and you will get more info. Only downside is that they are expensive but they last much longer than the R-comps and grip wise they are somewhere between the PS2 and MPSC but closer to the MPSC.
Also don't forget the Michelin Super Sport. For mixed driving they are great, much faster than the PS2s for example and they last forever. Do a search here on the forum for "MPSS" and you will get more info. Only downside is that they are expensive but they last much longer than the R-comps and grip wise they are somewhere between the PS2 and MPSC but closer to the MPSC.
05-10-2012, 12:31 PM
#19
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That's what cracks me up. Someone let me know when the last time a tire from a major manufacturer failed due to a design flaw. How did our ancestors survive before government interference in nearly everything. (And this isn't to poke fun at Europe; we've got as much, if not more, nonsense here.)
05-10-2012, 12:41 PM
#20
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I've run countless sets of MPSC's and have simply never had a problem with warm-up issues in cool weather. On the double yellow lap, I vigorously accelerate and brake; the MPSC's are good to go. I've also run them in the rain and, although they're not as good as RA-1's, they do pretty well, assuming you're not going through very deep water at high speeds.
05-10-2012, 06:25 PM
#21
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That's what cracks me up. Someone let me know when the last time a tire from a major manufacturer failed due to a design flaw. How did our ancestors survive before government interference in nearly everything. (And this isn't to poke fun at Europe; we've got as much, if not more, nonsense here.)
I've run countless sets of MPSC's and have simply never had a problem with warm-up issues in cool weather. On the double yellow lap, I vigorously accelerate and brake; the MPSC's are good to go. I've also run them in the rain and, although they're not as good as RA-1's, they do pretty well, assuming you're not going through very deep water at high speeds.
05-10-2012, 09:00 PM
#22
I run a Nitto Nt01 on 8/11 wheels in 235/275 sizes. It has worked excellent and I just corded my second rear set last weekend. The 275 on the 11 inch rim allows for really even tire wear to maximize the length of the tire. I never even had to flip this last set and wear inside and outside were identical.
Another tire you have to consider is the Hankook RS3...I'm serious when I tell you that this tire new is grippier than a Nitto or RA1 at the tail end of their life. It is a shockingly good tire for a "street" tire.
Another tire you have to consider is the Hankook RS3...I'm serious when I tell you that this tire new is grippier than a Nitto or RA1 at the tail end of their life. It is a shockingly good tire for a "street" tire.
