New aero package
05-08-2012, 07:09 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
05-08-2012, 09:46 PM
#32
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The front configuration is fixed for any of the above cars, but the RS/CS, GT2 and RSR all have adjustable wings
changing the rear will also affect the front
drag also changes as the rear changes
so it just depends on what you are looking for
for me the ess's on the back straight at WGI are sort of intimidating I would like the car to have more grip there, but am ok w/ the front grip so want to add a more rear grip at the expense of some drag(the car is not hp limited)
so the RS/CS wing adjusted to 9* leaves front lift at 40#s where is was w/ the RS front but changes the rear from neutral to having 160# of down force
If that is unbalanced then 6* would reduce the front lift and drag and reduce the rear down force to 120# which looks like a nice compromise and may be why Paddy wants to try that, I may change my mind too.
The whole point is that the aero has to be balanced as well as the spring rates, wheels/tires, sways, suspension setup etc. and having individual control of each piece is a plus
repeat the process until happy w/ the aero balance
changing the rear will also affect the front
drag also changes as the rear changes
so it just depends on what you are looking for
for me the ess's on the back straight at WGI are sort of intimidating I would like the car to have more grip there, but am ok w/ the front grip so want to add a more rear grip at the expense of some drag(the car is not hp limited)
so the RS/CS wing adjusted to 9* leaves front lift at 40#s where is was w/ the RS front but changes the rear from neutral to having 160# of down force
If that is unbalanced then 6* would reduce the front lift and drag and reduce the rear down force to 120# which looks like a nice compromise and may be why Paddy wants to try that, I may change my mind too.
The whole point is that the aero has to be balanced as well as the spring rates, wheels/tires, sways, suspension setup etc. and having individual control of each piece is a plus
repeat the process until happy w/ the aero balance
05-08-2012, 11:25 PM
#33
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Excellent point, camlob; and great comments Bill.
Honestly, my question is mostly about the impact of not replacing the touring splitters with a taco, because I have heartache over the fact that I just added them recently (to match the RS touring spoiler that came from the previous owner). I had thought of adding "dive planes" but I'm not sure who makes them, what they look like, and if that's even better in the end.
Following Bill's table through, I'm not completely sure some of the numbers make full sense to me, and wish I had more technical data on these elements to fit it all together. Comparing the basic Carrera to the touring RS, why is the front lift going up? While I'm not surprised that the spoiler is eliminating most (if not all) of the rear lift, it would have to be generating actual active downforce in order to increase lift on the front, which is very surprising to me because it is not a wing, it is a spoiler. Or else the front splitters are actually adding lift themselves instead of improving the situation (?)
Further, if the table is accurate, then just looking at it logically, it seems that running with the RSCS wing along with the RS (touring) splitters, I could get as much lift in the front as around 90 to 100 lbs! (at very high speed and full attack.) I'm not sure that's worth trying, and I am a little concerned about being right or wrong here. Is the RSCS front taco really providing 40 to 50 lbs downforce? (comparing the RS touring front to the RSCS front)
Sorry to be so fixated on this, but I'd like to understand it better, if anyone can help...
Anyone have actual tech data on these comparisons?
Honestly, my question is mostly about the impact of not replacing the touring splitters with a taco, because I have heartache over the fact that I just added them recently (to match the RS touring spoiler that came from the previous owner). I had thought of adding "dive planes" but I'm not sure who makes them, what they look like, and if that's even better in the end.
Following Bill's table through, I'm not completely sure some of the numbers make full sense to me, and wish I had more technical data on these elements to fit it all together. Comparing the basic Carrera to the touring RS, why is the front lift going up? While I'm not surprised that the spoiler is eliminating most (if not all) of the rear lift, it would have to be generating actual active downforce in order to increase lift on the front, which is very surprising to me because it is not a wing, it is a spoiler. Or else the front splitters are actually adding lift themselves instead of improving the situation (?)
Further, if the table is accurate, then just looking at it logically, it seems that running with the RSCS wing along with the RS (touring) splitters, I could get as much lift in the front as around 90 to 100 lbs! (at very high speed and full attack.) I'm not sure that's worth trying, and I am a little concerned about being right or wrong here. Is the RSCS front taco really providing 40 to 50 lbs downforce? (comparing the RS touring front to the RSCS front)
Sorry to be so fixated on this, but I'd like to understand it better, if anyone can help...
Anyone have actual tech data on these comparisons?
Last edited by zechunique; 05-08-2012 at 11:43 PM.
05-08-2012, 11:37 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
I'd say diveplanes are part of an entire package. Meaning that just because they are part of 997 based racecars, doesn't mean they will be as effective on a 993 body.
05-09-2012, 08:48 AM
#35
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Thread Starter
E..... Comparing the basic Carrera to the touring RS, why is the front lift going up? While I'm not surprised that the spoiler is eliminating most (if not all) of the rear lift, it would have to be generating actual active downforce in order to increase lift on the front, which is very surprising to me because it is not a wing, it is a spoiler. Or else the front splitters are actually adding lift themselves instead of improving the situation (?)
Further, if the table is accurate, then just looking at it logically, it seems that running with the RSCS wing along with the RS (touring) splitters, I could get as much lift in the front as around 90 to 100 lbs! (at very high speed and full attack.) I'm not sure that's worth trying, and I am a little concerned about being right or wrong here. Is the RSCS front taco really providing 40 to 50 lbs downforce? (comparing the RS touring front to the RSCS front)
Sorry to be so fixated on this, but I'd like to understand it better, if anyone can help...
Anyone have actual tech data on these comparisons?
Further, if the table is accurate, then just looking at it logically, it seems that running with the RSCS wing along with the RS (touring) splitters, I could get as much lift in the front as around 90 to 100 lbs! (at very high speed and full attack.) I'm not sure that's worth trying, and I am a little concerned about being right or wrong here. Is the RSCS front taco really providing 40 to 50 lbs downforce? (comparing the RS touring front to the RSCS front)
Sorry to be so fixated on this, but I'd like to understand it better, if anyone can help...
Anyone have actual tech data on these comparisons?
for the base 993 the total is 87, for M002RS its' 40, for M003RS it varies from -27 to -120
canards are a possibility but it would be much easier to add a plane splitter under the front, that area is perfectly flat and is begging for one
I'm sure that M002 front w/ M003 rear isn't the most efficient package but i don't see it as something to worry about either. You could also remove the 3 chin spoilers(if you have them) and install plane splitter to increase efficiency
Here's an example of a 993RSR w/ an extremely efficient aero package, both the plane splitter in front and the rear wing are very efficient
05-09-2012, 12:49 PM
#37
King of Cool
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I've been looking for canards and already bought a large piece of stainless steel to make a plane splitter underneath as it would be very easy to install, but anyone have any source for canards?
05-09-2012, 12:54 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
05-09-2012, 03:07 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Won't know till I get to the track.
First observation is that the interior rear view mirror is almost useless.
My car is already pretty light, the RS/CS on a c/f lid is 29#s compared to 20#s for the RS on a steel lid. IMO a fair trade off for the increased downforce
First observation is that the interior rear view mirror is almost useless.
My car is already pretty light, the RS/CS on a c/f lid is 29#s compared to 20#s for the RS on a steel lid. IMO a fair trade off for the increased downforce
The combo of the roll bar and the horizontal wing blade definitely limits the rear view.
05-09-2012, 09:11 PM
#42
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any change in back will also affect the front, this isn't 100% the correct way to think but add up both ends of the car to get an idea of the overall efficiency of the package
for the base 993 the total is 87, for M002RS its' 40, for M003RS it varies from -27 to -120
canards are a possibility but it would be much easier to add a plane splitter under the front, that area is perfectly flat and is begging for one
I'm sure that M002 front w/ M003 rear isn't the most efficient package but i don't see it as something to worry about either. You could also remove the 3 chin spoilers(if you have them) and install plane splitter to increase efficiency
Here's an example of a 993RSR w/ an extremely efficient aero package, both the plane splitter in front and the rear wing are very efficient
for the base 993 the total is 87, for M002RS its' 40, for M003RS it varies from -27 to -120
canards are a possibility but it would be much easier to add a plane splitter under the front, that area is perfectly flat and is begging for one
I'm sure that M002 front w/ M003 rear isn't the most efficient package but i don't see it as something to worry about either. You could also remove the 3 chin spoilers(if you have them) and install plane splitter to increase efficiency
Here's an example of a 993RSR w/ an extremely efficient aero package, both the plane splitter in front and the rear wing are very efficient
But on my roads, it will probably last a few hrs. I will try and have some customized canards made. The thing is, I will have to drill my bumper to install them. Some say use double sided tape, but if it does provide 40lbs of downforce(according to Preuninger), how can double sided tape last? And its funny when I read the latest EVO on the Zonda RS, they say their canards are for the air turbulence that the front wheel creates. So who is right?
