Only Walrod bushings
#46
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With these bushings, I originally set out to add toe stability to the front of the 993, nothing more. Curing the random 50mph steering wheel wobble was just a nice side effect to be honest.
What got me started on this was in 2001 I had my first (of three) 993 on an alignment rack, 'lasers' on their targets etc. I got under the car with the view to assess how bad the bump steer really was on these cars. At that time here on RL there was a lot of chatter about it. I pulled down on the car and watched the alignment targets move about, confirming a large amount of bump steer (and this was at ROW RH), it was a bit frightening considering my background in vehicle dynamics. While doing the above, I started to notice additional toe instabilities with just moderate amounts of force applied to simulate braking forces or moments about the front axle CL, which then quickly pointed to the cavity bushing as the culprit. This was on a 38k mile 993 at around 6 years of age.
Cavity bushings exist to allow compliance in at least one direction but remain stiff in others. This is an effort to smooth or filter road feel to the driver.
In developing the poly bushings I was concerned with two side effects; squeeking and providing too much road feel into the steering wheel. Fortunately neither have presented to be the case. That said, and I have said it before, there may be a time where they will squeek and require service.
#48
Track Day
The original owner of my 96 NB started to complain about steering wheel shake at 60 MPH after only 3186 miles on the car. After many complaints to the Porsche service departments and wheel balancing over the years, the shake remained. I bought the car with 14,000 miles and the shake. I put on new wheels and tires and still had the shake at 16,000 miles. This forum gave me the information I needed to find a solution. I decided to go with the Walrod bushings, inexpensive fix , easy to replace except for the grease from you know where. The result after 15 years, shake gone, the car feels solid as a rock. The best bang for the buck I could imagine.
Rick
Rick
#49
Seared
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#50
Rennlist Member
A secondary benefit of the polyurethane bushes is that they will be VERY easy to change the next time around. Now that I think of it, I will buy a set to have on the shelf or for the next owner.
#51
Rennlist Member
Ok, we get it. You want to keep your car stock. Nothing wrong with that, for sure. I just don't know why you feel the need to take the thinly veiled jabs at items like the Walrod bushings. There is so much evidence of many happy customers that don't have any issues and don't need to do constant maintenance. Why not give it a rest?
Alex I couldn't agree with this statement more. What I and possibly others have a problem with is your insistance on pushing your opinion. You have posted 8 times in this thread without having first hand experience of the subject product. Commenting negatively on something you haven't used personally is a little unfair don't you think? There are obviously a great many satisfied people using the CW bushings.
Tim, no more than anybody else here jumping on the band wagon.
I never said they were junk, did I? I don't even think that. Its just not the way I would go given other options that are available. If others can blow their horn on their choice, so can I.
And for someone to say the rubber bushing are a dumb design (for street use or DE days, full time track is another matter), are all manufacturers using them dumb?
By the way, I get PMs agreeing with me on various topics. Isn't it sad the atmosphere here limits a person's freedom of speech.
I never said they were junk, did I? I don't even think that. Its just not the way I would go given other options that are available. If others can blow their horn on their choice, so can I.
And for someone to say the rubber bushing are a dumb design (for street use or DE days, full time track is another matter), are all manufacturers using them dumb?
By the way, I get PMs agreeing with me on various topics. Isn't it sad the atmosphere here limits a person's freedom of speech.
I'm all for a good element of objectivity, but you're coming across as a contrarian know-it-all who, in the face of lots of happy customers and despite the lack of any direct experience on your part, seems to enjoy undermining what most here recognize as a very fine product.
No one wants to limit your opinion, and, no, you never said the bushings were junk, but your posts seem designed to whittle away at the efficacy of Chris' offerings whether you realize it or not, whether you want to admit it or not. Sure, blow your horn. We heard you the first five times. Really we did. But when you keep on trying so hard to support your position over and over and over and over again in the same thread, I think some might find it a tad tiresome. If I were to post what I've written here half a dozen times, I think you'll find it hard to disagree that there is not much to be gained with my repetition.
Last edited by Mark in Baltimore; 02-13-2012 at 04:08 PM.
#52
Rennlist Member
Take someone asking about leaking valve covers...you know I love that one.
How many times in those threads do we have to read mis-information, because anyone posting that you need to get billet covers to end the leaking, is doing just that. Warping...really. And when you question anything like so how much did they warp by, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
Wanna talk about power chips next. I never did get those pre and post dyno charts.
These places sound more like an advertizing venue.
#53
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately Mark, repetition seems to be required on any forum...simply because I have seen the other view repeated just as many times.
Take someone asking about leaking valve covers...you know I love that one.
How many times in those threads do we have to read mis-information, because anyone posting that you need to get billet covers to end the leaking, is doing just that. Warping...really. And when you question anything like so how much did they warp by, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
Wanna talk about power chips next. I never did get those pre and post dyno charts.
These places sound more like an advertizing venue.
Take someone asking about leaking valve covers...you know I love that one.
How many times in those threads do we have to read mis-information, because anyone posting that you need to get billet covers to end the leaking, is doing just that. Warping...really. And when you question anything like so how much did they warp by, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
Wanna talk about power chips next. I never did get those pre and post dyno charts.
These places sound more like an advertizing venue.
I made no reference to any other thread (although the tire rub thread was one that popped into my head as I was writing). Watching you try to battle that out was interesting.
So, for every post that carries a view that you don't agree with, you're going to go post-for-post and try to refute it? Okay...
#54
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately Mark, repetition seems to be required on any forum...simply because I have seen the other view repeated just as many times.
Take someone asking about leaking valve covers...you know I love that one.
How many times in those threads do we have to read mis-information, because anyone posting that you need to get billet covers to end the leaking, is doing just that. Warping...really. And when you question anything like so how much did they warp by, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
Wanna talk about power chips next. I never did get those pre and post dyno charts.
These places sound more like an advertizing venue.
Take someone asking about leaking valve covers...you know I love that one.
How many times in those threads do we have to read mis-information, because anyone posting that you need to get billet covers to end the leaking, is doing just that. Warping...really. And when you question anything like so how much did they warp by, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
Wanna talk about power chips next. I never did get those pre and post dyno charts.
These places sound more like an advertizing venue.
I'm all for a good element of objectivity, but you're coming across as a contrarian know-it-all who, in the face of lots of happy customers and despite the lack of any direct experience on your part, seems to enjoy undermining what most here recognize as a very fine product.
No one wants to limit your opinion, and, no, you never said the bushings were junk, but your posts seem designed to whittle away at the efficacy of Chris' offerings whether you realize it or not, whether you want to admit it or not. Sure, blow your horn. We heard you the first five times. Really we did. But when you keep on trying so hard to support your position over and over and over and over again in the same thread, I think some might find it a tad tiresome. If I were to post what I've written here half a dozen times, I think you'll find it hard to disagree that there is not much to be gained with my repetition.
#55
I find this thread somewhat informative. Thank you all for your insight. But I still have a couple of questions. I am thinking about updating to PSS10's right now. And talking with my mechanic about changing the bushings at the same time. (I was thinking of the Walrod bushings - having read about them here many times). My mechanic said that I wouldn't need to change them - as the stock ones should still be fine (after 77k).
After reading the debate here, I am not wondering if in fact I do need new bushings. I do have a wheel wobble at less than 60mph.
I am also wondering what the difference is between rubber and PU bushings?
Is rubber more compliant? PU is firmer?
Are there any other key differences in terms of handling or durability, or even safety?
After reading the debate here, I am not wondering if in fact I do need new bushings. I do have a wheel wobble at less than 60mph.
I am also wondering what the difference is between rubber and PU bushings?
Is rubber more compliant? PU is firmer?
Are there any other key differences in terms of handling or durability, or even safety?
#56
Rennlist Member
I'd venture to say that after 77k miles, let alone 135k miles, and XX years, they are well past their prime. The added cost to the PSS10 upgrade is minimal to refresh these components, no matter which version you get.
#57
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Chris, how much do we have to twist your arm to consider making these bushings for a Miata? Seriously. My autocross appliance needs better bushings. And I'm certainly not alone.
As far as 993 bushings, my biggest concern with poly set was noise. i did ask Chris specifically and his answer at the time was that they are quite and will not require constant re-lubing. In about 6 month and 4-5K miles with 7-8 autocrosses (maybe 50 long runs in total) thrown in the bushings are dead quite. Which makes it a good product in my book and for my specific application of a year-around daily driver with occasional GF autocross duty.
Granted, my comparisons are with stock bushings only on two separate cars. But this is a product that meets my needs, doesn't cost more than others (less, in fact) and thus is worth recommending to others who need control arm bushings replaced.
As far as 993 bushings, my biggest concern with poly set was noise. i did ask Chris specifically and his answer at the time was that they are quite and will not require constant re-lubing. In about 6 month and 4-5K miles with 7-8 autocrosses (maybe 50 long runs in total) thrown in the bushings are dead quite. Which makes it a good product in my book and for my specific application of a year-around daily driver with occasional GF autocross duty.
Granted, my comparisons are with stock bushings only on two separate cars. But this is a product that meets my needs, doesn't cost more than others (less, in fact) and thus is worth recommending to others who need control arm bushings replaced.
#58
Mike, check out energy suspension poly bushing. They make poly bushing for a lot of applications except Porsche....I have a set on my type R and no complains, comes with nasty white grease too
#60
We have installed many sets of Walrod bushings without other suspension parts with great success. I just did them on my wife's cab as she told me her steering wheel was shaking. She is very happy now. My car will be next as I too am getting a bit of the shakes.
With the design of the Walrod bushing's grooves to hold the super-slick grease, we have not seen any problems. I think someone has posted over 30k miles and 3 years so far with no issues.
There are other bushings available, such as from Elephant Racing, but they are over twice the price.
Also, if you ever have to replace them again in the future, say another 10 years from now, the Walrod bushings will be much easier to remove.
The Walrod bushings just make good sense.
With the design of the Walrod bushing's grooves to hold the super-slick grease, we have not seen any problems. I think someone has posted over 30k miles and 3 years so far with no issues.
There are other bushings available, such as from Elephant Racing, but they are over twice the price.
Also, if you ever have to replace them again in the future, say another 10 years from now, the Walrod bushings will be much easier to remove.
The Walrod bushings just make good sense.
In discussing my suspension upgrade with a long time porsche mechanic I mentioned that I would like to replace the old bushings with polyurathane ones that came highly recommended on Rennlist. The mechanic immeadiately objected stating that polyurethane was a bad choice. I mention this only because there are people with strong opinions. I'm still considering Walrod bushings.