MadMarkie

I'm headed to Laguna Seca in about a month... a track I have been dreaming of driving since my teenage years!

Since it's a long (and spendy) proposition from AZ, I would like to avoid being black flagged for sound violations, or at least have a back-up plan to keep the car on the track. Frantic searching has revealed only limited data... so I would love to hear from anyone with more experience at Laguna Seca in a 993.

My car is currently equipped with Dach-X sport cat pipes and RSR mufflers. I have the stock cat but sent the stock mufflers to Robin as cores right after I bought the car, to rectify the anemic exhaust note. She also has the factory sport airbox and an RS rear wing, but I don't imagine that's a contributing factor. So far, my options appear to be:
1. Short shift to 4th after turn 5 and take the speed hit (although the weight penalty of stock stuff vs RSRs and/or Dach-X cats might be about the same). I'm not going to be after a track record or anything... just having a blast rippin' around the coolest track I can think of.
2. Buy some stock mufflers, and either install them before the trip, or have them ready to swap in should the black flag wave. I think Martin S. had good results with different sport cats and stock mufflers, so this might work... Martin?!? I would rather not buy anything, but this seems like the best option.
3. Re-install the stock cat, and run it with the RSRs. Not sure how well this will work, as the change from stock to RSRs was exquisite... the car sounded sooo much better... but is it too loud? This is a no-cost option, but putting that pig of a cat back in feels all wrong.
4. Play Black Flag at ear-splitting volume on the stereo, wear leather and liberty spikes, and feign psychological problems if questioned Another no-cost option, as I have several appropriate CDs. Wait... Austin Powers teeth, huggies, and shaker-eye contact lenses might add up...

If anyone has data or other ideas, please chime in! I will probably post a link in the DE/Race forum as well, but figured I would start here, as a devout 993 homeboy.

Cheers, Mark.

FisterD

I think Martin runs Fabspeed Sport Cats and Fister Stage I mufflers at Laguna. I also sent him a pair of these http://fdmotorsports.net/index_files/Page692.htm.

ppressle

I run sport cats and rsr type mufflers at Laguna without issue.

If you are really worried, make up a set of Laguna exhaust tip extensions. Have them direct the exhaust note to the left side of the car to steer it away from the sound check station between turn 5 and 6.

(Update, Yes, Exactly like the Fister fangs...)

see you there..
Pete

race911

Is this a 90 or 92 day? (Yes, most all of the club dates are now 90. Most of the club weekend or race dates are 92, with some dates like SCCA varying from 90 in the AM to 92 later in the day. Guess why Spec Miata runs early all the time! And NASA doesn't run there at all.)

Once you have that figured out, understand Laguna has to have the WORST track management in the known universe. Well, West Coast anyway. They're onto the short shifting/otherwise manipulating the sound meter. (And always rumor of the portable meter, but I've yet to see it in action.) Best thing to do is run in a pack.

If you're black flagged, you're called in immediately and that session is over. Of your 5, maybe 6 sessions, do you want to risk this? And the last thing you're going to want to do is swap exhaust parts in the paddock. Not to mention carrying them around. Weight between components? Can't be serious about that. If you're trying to go sub-1:40 (what a well prepped 993 stock class club racer will do), then I suppose. If you're staying with what you've got, Pete's recommendation for turndowns is the best solution.

(If Martin pops in here, maybe he can describe what the Cup cars run for innovative exhaust solutions. Compromises them to the tune of about 100HP? Easy to see why Mark Anderson is pretty much given the win at POC events, given he really doesn't have to muffle his 928 racer much at all.)

And your first time there, it's unlikely you'll be rippin' anywhere on the track. The track is quite routine, given you have 3 "stand on the brakes" corners and 3 pretty generic 90 degree ones that dominate the lap. Brake pad wear/pedal travel is a HUGE issue if you're even slightly hustling in the high 1:40s range.

So what do I do with the yellow car? Run with the cat and stock mufflers. And after the last two times at Thunderhill with them on again, I'm down less than 2MPH and probably .5 sec/lap.

vincer77

Here is what has been found effective on the 997 Cup cars. Reportedly only a slight loss in power. System built by Competition Motorsports with Burns Stainless mufflers. It is an add-on system and bolts to the tailpipes of the stock Cup exhaust.

MadMarkie

Thanks for the input!

The sound limit for the weekend will be <90dB, so it looks like I will be doing something to hush the car and avoid the black flag. I'm undecided between the Fister Fangs, or trying to locate a set of stock mufflers. I'm not putting the stock cat back in... too much effort, and the sound increase from switching to the sport cat x-pipes was much less than the stock mufflers to RSRs switch.

How much effect do the Fangs have? These look like the best path (waaay easier to install than stock muffs), but I really don't want to miss any track time. You wouldn't happen to have any before/after data, would you Darin?!?

Martin S.

I run the Fabspeed X pipes with 200 cell cats into FD Motorsports Stage 1 mufflers and I have 90 degree elbows (Fister Fangs) fabed up for me by Darin Fister. With the sound shack on the right, my 90 degree elbows point to the left.

My last visit this past spring, I passed 92 dB sound, full on the throttle in 3rd gear past the dB meters. It was a damp day which had me worried. The old short shift to 4th, past the shack and back to 3rd trick works for some.

The stock cat with the RSRs will pass the sound check...I have done it there many times. It may be easier to swap out the stock cat with the DACH X set up....this way you don't have to buy anything. Having personally NOT changed out the mufflers or the cat, it could be easier to put stock mufflers on.

What is the event you are attending?

BTW, Porsche Owners Club is at Laguna Seca August 26 - 28th. There will be a Silent as well as live auction on Saturday night. There is a wine tasting that starts the festivities off at 5:30 PM. Have Firestone Walker beer too!

For a small donation per lap, anyone can take parade laps with any car. PM me for more specifics.

MadMarkie

Thanks for the info Martin!

It really sounds like my car will be OK; the noise increase from the Dach-X cat pipes was pretty small... nowhere near the change from stock mufflers to RSRs... and both you and Pete have passed with similar set-ups. Just to be sure, I ordered a set of Fister Fangs. They should be here with enough time to do some "with vs without" drive-by testing before the event. A friend let me borrow an SPL meter which probably won't agree perfectly with the booth at the track, but will at least characterize the change, ease the worry factor, and allow tuning of the Fang direction for the best results (I'm thinking Left and up a little, to avoid reflections off the wall). I will report back with my results...

The event is "Cherries Jubilee" on 9-11 Sep, hosted by PCA Golden Gate and CDS. A few of my local track-rat friends have attended the last few years, and their rave reviews made the invitation too much to resist! If I enjoy Laguna Seca as much as I anticipate, this will be the first visit of many.

Thanks again to all for the input!

Bill Verburg

LRP is 88dB

I run stock mufflers and heat exchangers and Fabspeed cat bypass, no issues so far in ~ 40 days there

cgfen

[QUOTE=race911;8766206]
And your first time there, it's unlikely you'll be rippin' anywhere on the track. The track is quite routine, QUOTE]

that's what i thought 2 years ago until i spun to the inside of turn six and was watching the wall come at me while i had "both-feet-in" and trying to steer away from impact while sliding backwards.
whew, stopped ~ 6 ft short of ruining my day.

cause = lift-off oversteer which i let get out of hand

Craig

FisterD

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery

mike993c2s

I'll be there as well. Based on Martin's experience, I think my stock cats with Fister Stage II's should be fine. I'll look for you then!

Marc Shaw

FWIW, my dual outlet Fabspeed on a 964 blew 96 last year.

I put on a set of turn aways that direct the sound at 45 degrees up and away from the sound station. I also had a set of 4" SuperTrapps welded on with 12 disks. With that combo I blew 86 this year but it felt a little "choked" so when I plan to go back next year I'll add a few more disks to open it up as I have a little to go on the sound.

Marc

MadMarkie

Some sound test results, for those interested...

Hand-held SPL meter, positioned about 50 feet away from the road on the right side. Car is a '96 with RSR mufflers, Dach-X cats, and the motorsound airbox. A minimum of six drive-by runs in 3rd gear wide-open throttle at approx 5000 RPM were logged for both the stock oval tips, and the Fister Fangs pointed left (away from the SPL meter). I seriously doubt the booth at Laguna Seca will measure the same numbers, so I was mostly interested in the SPL drop from directing the sound away. The average with the stock tips was 93.7 dB; switching to the Fangs pointed away gave an average 86.8 dB; the largest standard deviation of any data set was 0.6 dB. That's a statistically significant delta of nearly 7 dB... so they are very effective!

As for Cherries... only three days to go... see you all there!

FisterD

That's great info. Thanks Mark!