slownrusty

The Infiniti M45 is a much better driver's car. I looked at the GS430 and LS430 before buying my M45, and the M45 was hands down the "driver's car" with the same luxury features.
Yasin

993c4_Toronto

I can speak to the reliability of the LS. My winter car is a 1991 LS400 - yes LS400. All I ever need to do on this car is brakes, tires and oil change. Everything else just works. 20+ years with daily reliability is pretty good value.

Not too exciting though.

Quadcammer

I completely disagree. For one, the IS is the entry level product, and secondly, there have been no reports of doors falling of LS models.

Thats kinda like me talking about 996 IMS failures in a thread about a 993.

Drivers car? We are talking about 4200lb luxo boats here. I've driven the M, it simply has a harsher ride, more NVH, a louder interior, and the quality is no where near the level of the LS. I also think its a good bit smaller.

not to mention the reliability of the LS is unmatched.

Makmov

You can disagree all you want.

It is still a Toyota. Drives like a Toyota.

Reliability alone doesn't make a car car good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG9BOrj2YYk

993Brendan

My brother has one and loves it. He also has a Supra TT, a couple of Miata turbos and a bunch of other crazy cars...he loves the LS because it never gives him any trouble. I think he has had it for almost two years and hasn't done anything but change the oil (it currently has 130k on the clock).

Makmov

Nevertheless,

It's like saying I love my dishwasher becuase it's cleaned my dishes flawlessly for 10 years. However, does it envoke any emotions?

I know everyone talks about how sucessful Toyota has become, reliablity and they are great cars. If so, why are they such a failure? And it's not been for the lack of trying.

24 Hours of Le Mans failures, largely due to fragility and unrelaiblity. How ironic is that?
IMSA GT Championship, largely a failure inspite of winning some races.
Forumula 1 failed and dropped out.
Okay, they won a couple WRC titles but were caught using illegal parts on their cars, stripped of their current points and banned from competition for 12 months.

If you want an appliance for transportation to get you from A to B, they are I suppose they are great cars, however, as far as great cars go... they are not so great, so don't expect it to be something it will never be, and it will never be as great as the last of the "REAL" Mercs. However, if you are a put the key in the ingnition and go type, and do not care about the experience actually getting there, just that you got there is good enough for you then a Toyota (Lexus) might be a good choice for you.

I am just not a Toyota fan, and I have owned a few.

I would hate to see someone make a mistake based on the wrong thing.

I don't have to live with the decision you make but you do.

Quadcammer

Which toyota is the LS based off of?

And top gear saying its good doesn't make it good either.

So they don't do well at racing? They aren't a race car company. they build extremely competent family cars, and THAT they have done very sucessfully.

It seems some people are talking about these luxury cars like they are sports cars. To me, a great luxury car "drive" is a soft suspension, comfortable interior, and a quiet engine. All of these things the lexus has.

The last "real" merc is a great car. But its 19 years old. The safety, luxury, features, etc have all progressed quite far.

I liked my 05 S500 more than the Lexus, but the lexus is more reliable and does the luxury car experience quite well.

Makmov

You are missing the point.

Lexus, Division of Toyota, Headquarters Toyota Aichia Japan. Founder Eiji Toyoda; Toyota Motor Corp. How much more Toyota do you want it to be?

A great car is how it makes you feel driving it. There is a whole bunch of little elements of a car that makes a great car great.

Top Gear isn't always right and make stuff up all the time, but they get it. They get it because they are car guys.

To me, a great luxury car "drive" is a soft suspension, comfortable interior, and a quiet engine.and so is a Jaguar.

That is fine. Like I said I don't have to live with the choices you make. You, however, do.

Just don't make a mistake based on the wrong reasons.

And as far as over all reliablity Lexus barely cracks the top five and had been declining in recent years. Two Fords have better over all reliablity!

And how could you possibly say the Lancia Stratos isn't a great car!

Himmm let me think... NY to LA Lancia Stratos.... or Lexus 4whateveritis.

Quadcammer

Lexus is a part of toyota, just like bugatti is part of Volkswagen. What's your point? toyota builds a damn fine automobile.

The Lexus makes you feel safe, comfortable, and calm while driving. Pretty much bang on what most luxury sedan buyers are looking for. Very few are looking for a great driving experience or sporting pretensions. And those that are can buy BMWs or AMG Mercedes.

A jaguar is similar...but jaguars break...constantly, and are quite frankly not terribly well assembled.

JD Power and associates 2005: Lexus 1st
JD Power and associates 2006: Lexus, 2nd
JD Power and associates 2007: Lexus, 2nd
JD Power and associates 2008: Lexus, 3rd

2009 JD Power and associates dependability (based on 06 model year): Lexus, 3rd

The Lexus LS is the most reliable imported premium full size sedan since its inception in 1989...no one is silly enough to argue otherwise.

The stratos is an interesting and cool car. i'll go so far as to call it great.

But coming from someone who drove cross country in a 993 Twin Turbo, give me the Lexus all day every day and twice on sundays.

boman993

Umm...prove it. Got link?

I owned my 02 IS300 for 4 years before selling it and during that time, spent a
long time on my.is and clublexus forums; never have I read anything about
doors falling off.

Lexus builds amazing, boring to drive luxury cars. Everyone I've ever talked to
about the LS or any other Lexus product has/had great things to say about
them. Different strokes for different folks.

Makmov

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...2-lexus-sc400/

I know this is on a SC400 but it was a problem on the early IS too.

apparently it's been mention as a problem area on late models as well

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls46...ced-twice.html

06 GS300 Door Hinge recall the hinge slides down the pillar.
TSB 07 GS350 for a Door hinge problem

Makmov

That is all well and fine til you fall asleep, crash and burn off the side of a cliff somewhere.

I am just not a Toyota fan. I do not like them, and believed they have been artificially elevated above the appliance they really are.

payam972

relax!

Quadcammer

thats fine...you're free to your opinion.

But I'd expect that one could still respect what lexus has done in 21 short years.

boman993

The article you posted is irrelevant; it talks about 1992 SCs. The IS
came out years later (1998 Altezza) and is a DIFFERENT car. Same
with the GS. And a TSB is just a "bulletin" suggested repair NOT a
recall. Meaning if you experience a hinge problem you can bring it in
and get it repaired on Toyota's dollar. Seems to me you have a chip
on your shoulder about the brand. Weird.