dylanc

So, related to the previous post about bumpsteer due to lowering - I had the cars alignment checked today, and, well, I don't know how to read this sheet. Perhaps that means I am buying the wrong car, but I sure hope not. Any help would be appreciated.

SirLapsalot

Well what do you mean help reading what do you want to know???

Your toe and caster are fine in the front but why was your front camber not corrected? It is worse now than it was before the alignment. Everything else seems fine except maybe for the rear toe. I would have done a better job getting those numbers closer but other than that its fine.

MDamen

The Final numbers look worse than the initial numbers and aren't within specs. Most shops will align the car to be within factory specs unless you specify otherwise. Did you also get it corner balanced?

Ed Burdell

I'm interested in what others say here, too.

I was rather surprised when the shop doing my alignment couldn't get it in spec, telling me that it was because my car was lowered. However, my car was lowered to ROW M030 ride height - an OEM sanctioned height. Why would Porsche support, promote, and produce an option which precluded an in-spec alignment? I could envision a different alignment spec for such cars, but none seems to exist.

cgfen

you say that you asked them to "check" alignment.
before / after values indicate that they also modified settings, and did not seem to take much care to set both sides symmetrically when doing so.
<IMO don't go back to them again>

they did not record ride height???????? that would be valuable info to know regarding the perceived bump steer.

i don't think you are going to get a good idea of how "bad" your potential bump steer may be when doing a static alignment.

a good shop will cycle the wheels through vertical range of motion and measure geometry changes.


DO NOT LET THIS STOP YOU FROM BUYING THE CAR IF YOU LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.

The easiest way to solve bump steer issues is raise the ride height.
pretty much no cost if you take it to a good alignment shop and ask for specific camber / caster / toe spec's and a corner balance.
of course a good alignment and corner balance may cost $400.



Craig

SirLapsalot

Unless you're tracking the car there's no need for a corner balance. It sounds like you are considering buying this car. If you want to buy the car then do it and take it to a different shop to have it properly aligned. Bumpsteer should not be a problem if you are not tracking the car you don't need to sweat over it.

certz

When I bought my car the previous owner had the car way too low and had a crappy alignment done. The car handled terribly - I think this was one of the primary reasons he was selling the car because he did not know how badly he had screwed the car up with the ride height and alignment. I bought the car, took it to someone who knows 993's, raised the ride height (it is still plenty low), aligned and corner balanced it. The change was unbelievable - it was like driving a completely different car. Do not let some crappy alignment stop you from buying this car and do not take it back to "Auto Assets" to have the alignment fixed - I would not have accepted such a half-*** job.

993MAN

100% what Certz said. My TT was handeling like a car that wanted to cause problems in any sweeping corner. It felt like the **** just wanted to give.
Thats because after doing my HD upgrade I took it to a local "expert" with his fancy $80K machine for an alignment. So I took the time and went to a proper P car dude who transformed my car for a whopping $143.00NZ. The 8 hour round trip was well worth the effort.
These cars need to be set up properly or they can become lethal.

Makmov

It means that it is out of alignment and has not been corrected. You can get numbers to change on the rack without doing any adjustments. So my guess is they just checked the alignment but didn't change any adjustments. The only significant problem would be if there is not enough adjustment to get it back into spec. Overall the numbers are not way off like it's been crashed or hit curbs, potholes or other things with the wheel, so I wouldn't worry too much about it unless like I wrote, "there is not enough adjustment to get it back into spec.

As far as bump steer goes, this wont show bump steer at all, and it's much harder to calculate actual bump steer numbers. However, you can look under the car with all the weight on the wheels and get a good idea of how much of a bump steer problem you might have by looking at how level the tie rods are in relation to the rack and the knuckle.

The problem is when you lower a car and keep the rack at the same height the angle on the tie rod changes, which pulls the wheels toe in, and if excessive when you go over a bump it pulls the wheels in further and you get excessive toe in and is not pleasant to drive.

In most cases, if the car is not lowered a whole lot, maybe up to an inch, inch and a half you are not moving anything far enough to have a noticeable problem. It's when you really slam them down they get all *****.

It is a pretty easy fix on a 964/993. There are bump steer blocks you put under the rack to build it up and level the tie rod back to neutral.

It is noticeably worse with cars that have rake in them.

I would still four coner balance the car. It is probably okay, but you wont know unless you check it and if it is off then it can create all kinds of strange handling problems, but more importantly even on the street, it can create poor brake balance not just f to r but left to right.

Paul902

Agree with others that "final" numbers are worse than "initial" numbers. Also agree with cfgen that you should NOT walk away from this car based only on the alignment. However, if you do buy it, have the alignment corrected. Corner balance is not important for a street only car, but do INSIST on getting the rear kinematic toe adjusted properly. You cannot properly align a 993 without this. Your current sheet does not mention this, indicating they are not aware of how to properly align the rear.

NC TRACKRAT

I can only add that, to do a proper alignment, your weight must be added to driver's side and the car should have at least 1/2 tank of gas.

johnsjmc

The alignment as measured before isn,t so far off that it would cause poor driving characteristics. I have mine set up with about the same neg camber but less toe in. Mine drives fine. Ideally you want both sides close to equal . Tire wear will be accelerated by the excessive toe in and neg camber.The car as originally measured has more neg camber on the left front and after has more on the right front ,one way will cause a slight drift left the other way a slight drift to the right.
If they actually changed anything they are further from ideal afterward. How low is this car? I don,t see any height measurment.

Bill Verburg

I like the initial a lot more than the final, it was a decent performance alignment. It's curious that height was not recorded. Compare your #s to the specs I posted in the other thread, more camber and less toe are going to give you more grip in a turn at the expense of slightly increased tire wear.

Bill Verburg

please tell us more about this

dylanc

Thanks for all the input. They did not in fact change anything on the car, just took the measurements. Apparently, as Makmov says, the numbers change on the rack. The final being the more accurate.

He did say there was not enough adjustment to get it back into spec, but I am not sure WHICH spec he was referring to. Standard US factory or ROW M030 , which must be different.

Also charged me two hours labor for the readings, lovely.