GT3 Wing for 993... opinions?
#46
A piece of plywood is an airfoil. Try carrying one in a wind. As to Bernoulli, the only principle I can think of demands a fluid traveling over an orifice, but I think I get your point. The curved area of the airfoil had more area than the flat part so there is a reduced pressure due to the fluid (air) being spread out over a larger area. I suppose the air over the curved part has to move faster so will create a low pressure area and that may be the Bernoulli part.
I'm not an engineer and a newcomer to P-car. I am amazed that ours handles so well (993). I figure the light front would cause an understeer but it doesn't. Maybe the over weighted rear causes an oversteer so the two defects in design neutralize each other.
I'm not an engineer and a newcomer to P-car. I am amazed that ours handles so well (993). I figure the light front would cause an understeer but it doesn't. Maybe the over weighted rear causes an oversteer so the two defects in design neutralize each other.
This has always been an imprecise..and potentially misleading description..as most fluid dynamics experts will attest.
Airfoils do ONE thing when creating lift, they MOVE AIR (edit - DEFLECT may be a better term). Newton is a better applicable law (in some ways) in that the amount of lift is directly related to the mass of air that is moved (velocity change - speed and vector) as a result of the airfoil moving through an air mass. The "pressure" difference, or profile, is nothing more that the driver, or result depending on how you look at it, of the redirection of the airflow.
Spoilers and airfoils do nothing more than change the direction of the airflow.
#47
I have no inside information from Porsche, but I can say that my '95 came with RS wing on rear from previous owner, with stock '95 front. I seemed to notice a definite (though subtle) improvement in handling stability at high speeds when I added the front splitters. I don't think this was from a resolved imbalance as much as it was from a splitting effect that helps keep the nose stable left-to-right (like a rudder??) I assumed Porsche designed the RS pieces to improve aero characteristics in multiple categories, and required them together because they were a package design.
Perhaps some downforce from the splitters does improve the nose a bit too, but I still don't think the RS wing was lifting the front by pushing down on the rear. Sorry Ken, I have no measured values to share. I'd love to learn more about the specs of different kits.
I think the RS rear wing, the Turbo wing, and the old whale-tail have other benefits to performance, like helping reduce rear turbulance by closing the rear vacuum cavity, but I'm not an expert on it. Sorry if I'm coming off like a know-it-all here - I sure don't mean to.
The other rear element in that PDF (looks kind of like the Turbo S wing) does have air passing under, so probably does make it a true wing, creating active downforce.
Perhaps some downforce from the splitters does improve the nose a bit too, but I still don't think the RS wing was lifting the front by pushing down on the rear. Sorry Ken, I have no measured values to share. I'd love to learn more about the specs of different kits.
I think the RS rear wing, the Turbo wing, and the old whale-tail have other benefits to performance, like helping reduce rear turbulance by closing the rear vacuum cavity, but I'm not an expert on it. Sorry if I'm coming off like a know-it-all here - I sure don't mean to.
The other rear element in that PDF (looks kind of like the Turbo S wing) does have air passing under, so probably does make it a true wing, creating active downforce.
For goofy comparison, my nerve in the Radical keeps me in the 1.5-1.6g range at about 105.
#48
Mark,
Great pic - just one correction to it (from my understanding): the air along the top surface doesn't travel faster because of the different surface length, it travels faster because there's more air diverted over the top than along the bottom. Like a river where the shoreline narrows; the stream moves faster there. Greater quantity of flow begets higher velocity.
Again, sorry if I come of as an expert. I'm not. Just trying to explain what I understand (and what makes sense to me)
Great pic - just one correction to it (from my understanding): the air along the top surface doesn't travel faster because of the different surface length, it travels faster because there's more air diverted over the top than along the bottom. Like a river where the shoreline narrows; the stream moves faster there. Greater quantity of flow begets higher velocity.
Again, sorry if I come of as an expert. I'm not. Just trying to explain what I understand (and what makes sense to me)
#49
I just want to know where you guys are driving your cars when you say you can feel stuff. I'm entering T1 at Thunderhill at almost 125 in the 993, 108 in the Miata. Braking (and scrubbing off speed from turning), my minimum speed is about 85 in the 993, 88 in the Miata. Both are just over 1.2g's right around that point. (Would have to look at the data again to be exactly sure.) Where the hell is anyone pulling those g's at that speed on the street?
For goofy comparison, my nerve in the Radical keeps me in the 1.5-1.6g range at about 105.
For goofy comparison, my nerve in the Radical keeps me in the 1.5-1.6g range at about 105.
#50
Mark,
Great pic - just one correction to it (from my understanding): the air along the top surface doesn't travel faster because of the different surface length, it travels faster because there's more air diverted over the top than along the bottom. Like a river where the shoreline narrows; the stream moves faster there. Greater quantity of flow begets higher velocity.
Again, sorry if I come of as an expert. I'm not. Just trying to explain what I understand (and what makes sense to me)
Great pic - just one correction to it (from my understanding): the air along the top surface doesn't travel faster because of the different surface length, it travels faster because there's more air diverted over the top than along the bottom. Like a river where the shoreline narrows; the stream moves faster there. Greater quantity of flow begets higher velocity.
Again, sorry if I come of as an expert. I'm not. Just trying to explain what I understand (and what makes sense to me)
#51
Ken,
I am not driving like that on the roads. I totally agree with your earlier comment. I do drive occasionally on track, but haven't had the 993 on track yet - want to get familiar to its differences to the boxster before I spend a weekend with it at a DE.
I do drive pretty fast sometimes along wide-open, country roads with nothing but soybeans all around, but nowhere near 100 plus!!
However, the country roads are bumpy and uneven, allowing me to sense stability (and lack thereof) on occasion.
I am not driving like that on the roads. I totally agree with your earlier comment. I do drive occasionally on track, but haven't had the 993 on track yet - want to get familiar to its differences to the boxster before I spend a weekend with it at a DE.
I do drive pretty fast sometimes along wide-open, country roads with nothing but soybeans all around, but nowhere near 100 plus!!
However, the country roads are bumpy and uneven, allowing me to sense stability (and lack thereof) on occasion.