wolfgang1

no affiliation, etc

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/1799364676.html

timothymoffat

That's RSA, not quite RS.

clubsport1

It just shows the power of marketing that so many Americans think these cars are an RS.....Porsche America have to be congratulated, it is almost a scam!

timothymoffat

I have to agree. The value of these cars (RSA) is sky high for no other reason than name. De-contented C2 with sport suspension (same as available on C2), cloth sport seats, a rear spoiler from another era, and RS dooe cards is a desireable car for sure but nothing like the real deal.

Speedyellow993

This car has many stories.... Search the 964 forum

FriedEgg

You’re missing the point here. The fact of the matter is that the RSA was built in limited numbers. Collectors collect them because of that, and the transaction prices are reflective of what one is willing to pay. “Worth” is irrelevant and I think that it is naïve to consider them under those criteria, as I could think of at least half a dozen other models that should not command their current pricings if that were the case. I do not think that anyone who buys them think of them as anything but an RSA – a limited number historically relevant US 964 with some noticeable changes that add to the driving thrills.

Not to compare the two, but I have driven a Euro 964 RS Lightweight and actually prefer a faster track prepped stripped out regular 964 C2. That doesn’t mean that I think that the C2 should be worth more…

timothymoffat

No, I don't think I am. First off, check the title of this thread. This reference happens over and over. Limited production? Limited only by how many Porsche could sell in the time the car was available. Remember also the car was introduced with the purpose of increasing sales at a time when sales were less than plentiful (I'm being generous here). Using the legendary RS letters in it's name got the attention Porsche was seeking. Don't take me wrong, I love the RSA for what it was; a lower priced, less frills 911. But let's be honest, it was a marketing exercise by PCNA pure and simple. When sellers asking big $$$ for RSAs today refer to the RS's "legendary" status, I think it may be misleading.

FriedEgg

Actually, yes- you are missing the point. The person who started this thread is not the seller. The seller listed the car not as an “RS”, but an “RS America”. The fact as you have stated is that Porsche originally introduced the “RS America” at a lower price point back in 93 to increase interest and sales at a time when both Porsche and the US economy were experiencing hard times. The fact also is that the “RS America’s” are currently being bought and sold at large premiums over the regular comparable 964 C2. That is due in no small part to the limited number produced. As I’ve said, worth has nothing to do with it. To stomp your feet and say that it was a PCNA marketing exercise and that Porsche referenced the venerable “RS” name was sacrilegious is just plain silly. Again, a well sorted 964 stripper with some selective track upgrades was, to me, a better drive than even the RS.

I don’t have a dog in this fight and am not being argumentative for the heck of it. I do not and have never owned an RSA. I don’t know if I’ll ever own one, but I do recognize it to be a significant and special US 911 model at a tumultuous time during Porsche’s long history. There were only 701 made, and that many were tracked/modified/wrecked only add to the value of those remaining that are pristine, low mileage, and near stock condition.

Cactus

Hmmmm........

timothymoffat

Let me put this another way fellow Porsche enthusiast. I do not have the same opinion of this (964RSA) model as you. My response asked to look at the title of this thread NOT what the seller advertised. I did not "stomp my feet" and say that it was a marketing exercise. PCNA's using the "RS" name on this model was not exactly well received at the time the car was introduced. I compltetely agree with your selection of a modded C2 as the best 964 out there......RS (EURO) included. I have not owned a 964 of any kind (yet.....hoping to change that with a euro RS one day). Lastly, 701 cars is not that many but still a significant number of cars given sales of all 911 models at the time. I will NOT argue, as I agree, that a car is worth what is paid. Personally, I don't see the value in an RSA (same goes for 993 Turbo S).

So, am I missing the point, or merely seeing things differently than yourself?

AOW162435

Andreas

timothymoffat

Your point is?

clubsport1

I was under the impression the RSA was introduced at the end of the 964 production run to help shift the US spec shells the factory had allocated, which were not exactly in demand.

it is not a bad car as such, the problem being as TimM points out is in the title of this thread.
The real 964RS is actually a very special car in Porsche history, it saw the fabled homolgation RS car re introduced into the showrooms, race on Sunday- sell on Monday.
The 64RS is not my favourite RS, but if it hadn't been a success, then we probably wouldn't have had the sublime 993RS, can you imagine what a miserable existence most of us would have had on this forum? You chaps would have nothing to copy and MA Shaw may not even exist!

FriedEgg

TimM-
I do respect your opinion and your different view point. After re-reading my earlier post, I may have come off unintentionally aggressive, and for that I apologize. I think that we are talking about the same thing here. Probably the only thing that we have disagreement on, as you have stated, is our views on how “special” RSA is.

I do sense that some (certainly not pointing the finger at you) tend to bag the RS America just because Porsche used the “RS” moniker while some deemed it unworthy. To me, it is a relevant model in the US 911 line not only because of its historical significance, but it is also an excellent driver’s car that Porsche made available through simple deletion of parts and options – “less is more”. It is something that I wish they would have applied and made available to more models. (I have driven a very mildly track prepped 993 with a manual rack that’s analogous to the RSA, and it was sublime!)

Is the RSA worthy of carrying the “RS” name? – Obviously not to some. However that’s not really relevant today, as the RSA is still the only “RS” that Porsche made available in the US until the 997. (BTW, let’s not forget that Porsche called it “RS America”, and not “RS”.) There is no such variation for subsequent series.

Do RSA owners believe that it is the same car as ROW RS? – Absolutely not. If that were the case, RSA’s would likely trade at similar price point as a full-on RS. There may well be some uninformed who might think that, but they are not owners and did not plunk down real dollars for them, and hence, they do not move values.

Are RSA’s more special, more collectable, and a better drive compared to a regular unmodified 964 C2? - Absolutely, as the market premium is reflective of that.

At any rate, thanks for your opinion and allowing me to share mine. I do enjoy the discussion.

NP993

Given a 964 C2 coupe and an RS America that were in identical condition, miles, color, etc, I would pay approximately $500 more for the RSA. That's about what RS door panels and a 3.2 Carrera whaletail cost used, right?

Rare does not equal desirable. My gym socks are rare, but nobody is going to pay me for them.