If you had to pick just 1 car to keep, which one would you keep? (993 vs 740i)
03-09-2010, 08:10 PM
#196
Rennlist Member
You're punishing yourself for no reason...sell the damn cars!
I've done it before. Bought another one when I could.
I've done it before. Bought another one when I could.
Sigh... I'm still here. I'm just listening at this point. It's too depressing for me to do more. They're some really good ideas in theory. The thing is, none of you really know us. You don't know our exact situation. Exact situation. There's more here going on than I've said for privacy sake, even though I probably shared too much already and and have obviously bored many of you. I know I've angered or disappointed some of you with my decisions or lack of decision (from the tone of your responses). I'll deal with that.
I don't feel comfortable telling you the complete response and discussion I had with my smart wife this morning. I printed out a ton of responses from here, edited some of them a bit (the ones that were really biting and felt cruel to me), and we talked about them as she read them.
In the end, she thought it was ridiculous for me to sell my 2 watches. One was a 5 year anniversary gift from her and the other I saved up years to get. They're off the table, for now. It's not like I'm sitting on $20k worth of watches here...
We're not selling our home. We at least will stay here for 2 more years till her daughter goes to school. She lives walking distance away with her daddy during the week. Jeez, it's $1333 a month plus utilities of $391 mo. That doesn't necessitate changing anything for. A 2 BR apt is over $1500 in this area. Do you know how much it costs to live around DC? We could refi, as well. I doubt we will but we could. That would bring it down even more. Waiting to hear back from our mortgage guy. I'm open to it but not thrilled about rolling more money into this small mortage that's left and lengthening the term an extra 19 years. I know we could try to pay it off earlier if times get better but that may drag on. Sounds ludicrous to me and some of my friends agree. Just because you think it's best for us - you don't really know us or our total situation. Not trying to sound like an ***, it is what it is.
Told her what I could get for my 2 cars (her's is fine, reliable, paid off, has an 8 yr warranty bumper to bumper on it). Probably about $37k for both of mine on the low end.
She made a deal with me this morning - Take and pass the real estate class I was thinking of doing, get my license, work it part time with my barely full time job - weekends and evenings, and I can keep the cars, for now, for a while at least, until one of them needs a MAJOR repair - ie: trans, engine, $5k problem, etc.
So, throw eggs on our situation if you must. Laugh at us. Make fun. We may change our mind next month and do what you all said, but for now we're sitting tight and waiting this out a bit. If we can change our expenses by really pouring over our budget, cutting the fat wherever we can, then we'll be OK for a while. If we go through the $37k that's left in our checking account in the next 6 months or year, THEN I've agreed to sell the 993, a watch if I have to, etc. Maybe even the BMW.
Buying a 2 year old Honda Accord for $17k or so is about the same as keeping my $8-$9k BMW. The BMW will need about $2k-$3k or maybe a lot less in repair each year. That's the difference in price between selling the BMW and getting the newer Honda. No, I'm not driving a 5 year old Honda Accord with the older body style, because... I don't have to. Yet.
That's it! Call us stupid, but in the end, if you met us, saw our neighborhood, knew how hard we worked to get here, and met our friends we've made here, you might think differently. You don't walk in our shoes.
I don't plan on driving the 993 much. Just enough to enjoy it on the weekends and during the week now and then. When things pick up for us (workwise), THEN I'll drive it more, and I might even still have it.
As to why she can't be a dental hygienist after doing it for 22 years anymore, that's personal. She does plenty well working for her parents and they really need her.
Peace out...
I don't feel comfortable telling you the complete response and discussion I had with my smart wife this morning. I printed out a ton of responses from here, edited some of them a bit (the ones that were really biting and felt cruel to me), and we talked about them as she read them.
In the end, she thought it was ridiculous for me to sell my 2 watches. One was a 5 year anniversary gift from her and the other I saved up years to get. They're off the table, for now. It's not like I'm sitting on $20k worth of watches here...
We're not selling our home. We at least will stay here for 2 more years till her daughter goes to school. She lives walking distance away with her daddy during the week. Jeez, it's $1333 a month plus utilities of $391 mo. That doesn't necessitate changing anything for. A 2 BR apt is over $1500 in this area. Do you know how much it costs to live around DC? We could refi, as well. I doubt we will but we could. That would bring it down even more. Waiting to hear back from our mortgage guy. I'm open to it but not thrilled about rolling more money into this small mortage that's left and lengthening the term an extra 19 years. I know we could try to pay it off earlier if times get better but that may drag on. Sounds ludicrous to me and some of my friends agree. Just because you think it's best for us - you don't really know us or our total situation. Not trying to sound like an ***, it is what it is.
Told her what I could get for my 2 cars (her's is fine, reliable, paid off, has an 8 yr warranty bumper to bumper on it). Probably about $37k for both of mine on the low end.
She made a deal with me this morning - Take and pass the real estate class I was thinking of doing, get my license, work it part time with my barely full time job - weekends and evenings, and I can keep the cars, for now, for a while at least, until one of them needs a MAJOR repair - ie: trans, engine, $5k problem, etc.
So, throw eggs on our situation if you must. Laugh at us. Make fun. We may change our mind next month and do what you all said, but for now we're sitting tight and waiting this out a bit. If we can change our expenses by really pouring over our budget, cutting the fat wherever we can, then we'll be OK for a while. If we go through the $37k that's left in our checking account in the next 6 months or year, THEN I've agreed to sell the 993, a watch if I have to, etc. Maybe even the BMW.
Buying a 2 year old Honda Accord for $17k or so is about the same as keeping my $8-$9k BMW. The BMW will need about $2k-$3k or maybe a lot less in repair each year. That's the difference in price between selling the BMW and getting the newer Honda. No, I'm not driving a 5 year old Honda Accord with the older body style, because... I don't have to. Yet.
That's it! Call us stupid, but in the end, if you met us, saw our neighborhood, knew how hard we worked to get here, and met our friends we've made here, you might think differently. You don't walk in our shoes.
I don't plan on driving the 993 much. Just enough to enjoy it on the weekends and during the week now and then. When things pick up for us (workwise), THEN I'll drive it more, and I might even still have it.
As to why she can't be a dental hygienist after doing it for 22 years anymore, that's personal. She does plenty well working for her parents and they really need her.
Peace out...
03-09-2010, 09:18 PM
#197
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I think the criticism and tough love advice goes a little too far. We are not looking at an imminent bankruptcy, here. I googled the place Steve lives and it seems to be one of the best in the nation to own residential real estate. Also, it is not a given that Steve won't find a better paying job before his liquid funds expire. Refinancing would off course slow down the cash burn but on the other hand reduce the growing equity that can be recouped if the house has to be sold eventually. So that seems to be a suggestion of moving funds from the left pocket to the right. And, as far as I know, refinancing would trigger significant transaction costs as well.
Going back to the initial question, I think the first item to go should be the beamer. Not to raise cash but to reduce the risk of maintenance and repairs that are out of proportion to the car's value. And it is probably still depreciating unlike the other assets discussed. The last item to go should be the watches. No cost of ownership and no significant depreciation to be expected.
Finally, the wife's skiing trips: Common guys, we are not talking about helicopter rides to the best resort in Aspen, Co, are we? Skiing is not that expensive. If it helps to keep up her spirits, that may be money well spent. And we shouldn't be offering marriage counsel unless being asked for it.
Good night and good luck,
Valerian
Going back to the initial question, I think the first item to go should be the beamer. Not to raise cash but to reduce the risk of maintenance and repairs that are out of proportion to the car's value. And it is probably still depreciating unlike the other assets discussed. The last item to go should be the watches. No cost of ownership and no significant depreciation to be expected.
Finally, the wife's skiing trips: Common guys, we are not talking about helicopter rides to the best resort in Aspen, Co, are we? Skiing is not that expensive. If it helps to keep up her spirits, that may be money well spent. And we shouldn't be offering marriage counsel unless being asked for it.
Good night and good luck,
Valerian
03-09-2010, 10:14 PM
#198
Drifting
A few more thoughts, and I will jump out.
....
2. Steve doesn't owe us anything. Our advice is worth what he paid for it, and there's no obligation for him to determine his path from the input gathered here.
3. That said, there is a lot of great input here. The OP's situation isn't exactly cut and dried, but I believe that some careful life assessment is in order.
...
....
2. Steve doesn't owe us anything. Our advice is worth what he paid for it, and there's no obligation for him to determine his path from the input gathered here.
3. That said, there is a lot of great input here. The OP's situation isn't exactly cut and dried, but I believe that some careful life assessment is in order.
...
It seems Steve wants to have it all and why not? I hope he keeps the Porsche if he still wants it. Perhaps he can find an answer that will permit this. I have no idea of knowing this.
03-09-2010, 10:53 PM
#199
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: I should be in TNT for Carnival!
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I think the criticism and tough love advice goes a little too far. We are not looking at an imminent bankruptcy, here. I googled the place Steve lives and it seems to be one of the best in the nation to own residential real estate. Also, it is not a given that Steve won't find a better paying job before his liquid funds expire. Refinancing would off course slow down the cash burn but on the other hand reduce the growing equity that can be recouped if the house has to be sold eventually. So that seems to be a suggestion of moving funds from the left pocket to the right. And, as far as I know, refinancing would trigger significant transaction costs as well.
Going back to the initial question, I think the first item to go should be the beamer. Not to raise cash but to reduce the risk of maintenance and repairs that are out of proportion to the car's value. And it is probably still depreciating unlike the other assets discussed. The last item to go should be the watches. No cost of ownership and no significant depreciation to be expected.
Finally, the wife's skiing trips: Common guys, we are not talking about helicopter rides to the best resort in Aspen, Co, are we? Skiing is not that expensive. If it helps to keep up her spirits, that may be money well spent. And we shouldn't be offering marriage counsel unless being asked for it.
Good night and good luck,
Valerian
Going back to the initial question, I think the first item to go should be the beamer. Not to raise cash but to reduce the risk of maintenance and repairs that are out of proportion to the car's value. And it is probably still depreciating unlike the other assets discussed. The last item to go should be the watches. No cost of ownership and no significant depreciation to be expected.
Finally, the wife's skiing trips: Common guys, we are not talking about helicopter rides to the best resort in Aspen, Co, are we? Skiing is not that expensive. If it helps to keep up her spirits, that may be money well spent. And we shouldn't be offering marriage counsel unless being asked for it.
Good night and good luck,
Valerian
03-09-2010, 11:29 PM
#200
Drifting
The only place for discussion by Members of Domestic And International Politics and other Controversial Topics.
https://rennlist.com/forums/politics...ntroversy-212/
And now back to our show...
Steve, You were a brave soul (perhaps a bit crazy?) to put yourself out here for advice. Good luck getting things back on track for you & family.
Plenty of varied commentary and collective wisdom. Everyone's got an opinion and it might not be right for anyone but them. However, interesting to see the perspectives...
03-09-2010, 11:38 PM
#201
Rennlist Member
Steve,
We've spoken many times in person, so you know I've been in Real Estate since 2004.
Please realize that taking and passing a RE exam is the bare minimum to enter the profession. You'll soon find expenses chasing you from every angle: office fees, continuing education fees, broker fees, RE commission fees, errors & omissions insurance, not too mention the time spent trying to build a client base.
This, in my humble opinion, is one of the worst times to jump into Real Estate (as a new agent) since the dawn of time. Think it through before making the plunge. It's not cheap.
Andreas
We've spoken many times in person, so you know I've been in Real Estate since 2004.
Please realize that taking and passing a RE exam is the bare minimum to enter the profession. You'll soon find expenses chasing you from every angle: office fees, continuing education fees, broker fees, RE commission fees, errors & omissions insurance, not too mention the time spent trying to build a client base.
This, in my humble opinion, is one of the worst times to jump into Real Estate (as a new agent) since the dawn of time. Think it through before making the plunge. It's not cheap.
Andreas
Steve, we have talked in the past about you getting into real estate and, as you know, I am a big fan of the industry. Andreas is right; this is a tough time to start. As I mentioned before, two ways to ensure immediate success in RE is to 1) have a ton of luck and/or 2) be on a really good team that feeds you consistent leads. I'm sure that you're a hard worker. It helps to have a significant other who can support you through the rough times and/or a reserve of cash to tap from, an approach that is clearly undesirable for you at this point. You also said that in your circle of friends, there are many Realtors and that your referral base would be limited, thus impinging upon building your own, personal client base.
I've dissuaded you a few times from selling your 993, but this time I think you should get rid of it. You do agonize over this on a regular basis. it's just a possession (albeit a damned cool one).
However, and I know I'm not the only one here who has this notion, you seem to do a lot of compromising for your wife. Yes, you are the only one who truly understands your relationship and situation, but, whether you have realized it or not, your posts on this matter paint a picture that strongly indicates that your wife wants you to sell something to make life better because she is not a fan of you having the car. Wasn't it your wife's idea to buy this more upscale house? Maybe I remembered it incorrectly. If this assumption is true, it kind of sucks to see that you're the one who has to give up your 993 because she wanted a bigger pad.
Your friend,
03-10-2010, 12:03 AM
#202
Drifting
...giving advice is a strange game...most people just do what they were going to do anyway...Matt777
Last edited by Rinty; 03-10-2010 at 10:04 AM.
03-10-2010, 12:08 AM
#203
Rennlist Member
Steve's situation is far from disastrous. He is sitting pretty compared to most Americans. Granted he has to make some major adjustments but most people would be envious of his dilemma. In fact they'd probably be saying,"WTF?" A well funded 401k, a well funded savings account, an almost paid off 900k house and several nice cars all say to me that Steve has done well and made sound decisions along the way. Kudos to Steve! Financially Steve' best investment is in his house and if I was him, I'd do everything in my power to keep the house... even if it meant taking the bus. He could live in that house cheaper than most people who only made 50k a year have to spend on rent. And that's before the tax advantages. Historically, we have always rebounded and the house is in one of the best markets in the good 'ol USA. Ten to fifteen years from now he could sell it and have a pretty good bankroll for retiring along with his other resources.
Steve's struggle is with severing his emotional attachment to his worldly possessions, I think we can all understand that. But you never see a hearse with a luggage rack so selling and downsizing is a no brainer to me. Cashing in on some of your assets is part of why you have them. Re-adjusting your lifestyle and your possessions to have a happy home and life seems prudent.
Steve's struggle is with severing his emotional attachment to his worldly possessions, I think we can all understand that. But you never see a hearse with a luggage rack so selling and downsizing is a no brainer to me. Cashing in on some of your assets is part of why you have them. Re-adjusting your lifestyle and your possessions to have a happy home and life seems prudent.
03-10-2010, 12:24 AM
#204
Rennlist Member
A colleague of mine who is also a certifiedl mediator taught me this, many years ago, and it is one of the most valuable things I have ever learned. So when I respond to a request for personal advice, I do so with the understanding that I am just functioning as a sounding board.
This has been an interesting thread. I think its great that so many people come together and so passionately try to help another. This is part of what makes this such a great place. I'm sure Steve and others will take away something useful from this. I know I have.
03-10-2010, 01:15 AM
#205
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have poured over everything you guys have typed. I really, really do appreciate it all. Even the hard stuff. I know I'm the king of waffling. I realize I don't seem to know what I'm doing half the time here. I understand that reading through my posts can be an exercise in frustration, with many of you mentally tearing your hair out at my lame-brained, seemingly cockamamy ideas. I can now see how you feel like my value judgements are totally skewed. But, if you met me at Starbucks for coffee one day you'd most likely find me to be a pretty decent, somewhat normal, funny guy.
It's been difficult coming to terms with what I've read, but I'm slowly crawling out of my fog. I don't want to defend too much more as I've already done it ad nauseum, but I do want to say that my wife pursuing one of her passions in life - skiing, isn't a big deal at all financially. She drives to Whitetail Ski Resort, a whopping 90 minutes from our house mid-week, skis with a friend for like $40 or so, and comes home. She typically does that 3-4 times a year at the most. I don't consider that a extreme luxury. Flying out to Aspen 3X in a winter and staying at a $400 a night hotel, that would be ludicrous for us right now.
As for all the other stuff, I think we've discussed it enough. I can see changing my mind on selling the 993. I can now see why selling the BMW would be a good idea. I called 2 mortgage guys today thanks to your suggestions, and one says I might not even qualify with my new income for a refinancing! Great. He's still working on that. The other guy said it would cost me about $5k to refinance, rolled into a new loan (hope I'm getting the terminology correct) and he didn't think it would be worth it if it were him. He told me to call my mortgage company instead and see if they'll do an internal modification on the loan for around $200-$300. I'll call them soon. He thought it could go from the 5 7/8% it's at now to about 5% with practically no fees.
So - I'm now open to selling the cars. Maybe I'll sell a watch if need be. If you were in my shoes you'd get a little cranky reading some of your responses, too. I guess I deserve some of the lambasting that's been done. I would like to think I'm not the selfish, stupid, clueless idiot that some of you have alluded to me being due to my earlier responses in this thread. If I had thought them out a bit more, I probably wouldn't have written them.
Should I have started this post in the first place? Maybe not. I should have quietly made a grown-up decision on my own keeping my personal issues and facts off of Rennlist, a Porsche forum for enthusiasts. I didn't mean to turn this forum into therapy time for Steve or clutter it up with infantile thinking on my part. I'm sorry for that if I did.
I know I've learned a lot. I might decide to heed some or all of your advice in good measure, or sooner than that. I guess I hate being backed into a corner to make a decision in any situation in my life. I hate it at work, I hated it growing up, and I hate it now when it comes to selling something I have really enjoyed. I don't think that makes me ultra materialistic. Or maybe it does. I'm not really good (obviously) at letting go of things. You've brought this into the light so now it's more apparent to me.
To each and every one of you, thanks for putting things into a perspective I was unable to. Throughout the day today I've thought about your posts and I'll continue to for a good while. I spent hours today searching for cheaper homes a little further out, and a bit closer in. In the end, we'll be ok with, or without, what it is.
Regards,
Steve R
It's been difficult coming to terms with what I've read, but I'm slowly crawling out of my fog. I don't want to defend too much more as I've already done it ad nauseum, but I do want to say that my wife pursuing one of her passions in life - skiing, isn't a big deal at all financially. She drives to Whitetail Ski Resort, a whopping 90 minutes from our house mid-week, skis with a friend for like $40 or so, and comes home. She typically does that 3-4 times a year at the most. I don't consider that a extreme luxury. Flying out to Aspen 3X in a winter and staying at a $400 a night hotel, that would be ludicrous for us right now.
As for all the other stuff, I think we've discussed it enough. I can see changing my mind on selling the 993. I can now see why selling the BMW would be a good idea. I called 2 mortgage guys today thanks to your suggestions, and one says I might not even qualify with my new income for a refinancing! Great. He's still working on that. The other guy said it would cost me about $5k to refinance, rolled into a new loan (hope I'm getting the terminology correct) and he didn't think it would be worth it if it were him. He told me to call my mortgage company instead and see if they'll do an internal modification on the loan for around $200-$300. I'll call them soon. He thought it could go from the 5 7/8% it's at now to about 5% with practically no fees.
So - I'm now open to selling the cars. Maybe I'll sell a watch if need be. If you were in my shoes you'd get a little cranky reading some of your responses, too. I guess I deserve some of the lambasting that's been done. I would like to think I'm not the selfish, stupid, clueless idiot that some of you have alluded to me being due to my earlier responses in this thread. If I had thought them out a bit more, I probably wouldn't have written them.
Should I have started this post in the first place? Maybe not. I should have quietly made a grown-up decision on my own keeping my personal issues and facts off of Rennlist, a Porsche forum for enthusiasts. I didn't mean to turn this forum into therapy time for Steve or clutter it up with infantile thinking on my part. I'm sorry for that if I did.
I know I've learned a lot. I might decide to heed some or all of your advice in good measure, or sooner than that. I guess I hate being backed into a corner to make a decision in any situation in my life. I hate it at work, I hated it growing up, and I hate it now when it comes to selling something I have really enjoyed. I don't think that makes me ultra materialistic. Or maybe it does. I'm not really good (obviously) at letting go of things. You've brought this into the light so now it's more apparent to me.
To each and every one of you, thanks for putting things into a perspective I was unable to. Throughout the day today I've thought about your posts and I'll continue to for a good while. I spent hours today searching for cheaper homes a little further out, and a bit closer in. In the end, we'll be ok with, or without, what it is.
Regards,
Steve R
03-10-2010, 06:01 AM
#207
Why do I feel so left out!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I tried to stay away.... but its like a train wreck.... and one i have been a passenger on (and am still trying to gain a full recovery from) but I feel I need to say this:
This thread has taught me more about people on this forum than any thread about the latest suspension change or interior enhancement.
It has taught me that some people I had "internet respect" for I really need to meet and become much better friends with - and it has also taught me what a bunch of FU#*ING oxygen thieves some people can be.....
The advice here borders on the sublime to the ridiculous !!
Back on topic - Steve - I hope you get what you are looking for - but if you post another "What should I do?/sell?/my wife says my car is too expensive thread" (or similar) I hope you get fried by anyone that responds to that thread.
OUT (for good)
Simon.
03-10-2010, 09:38 AM
#208
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OT:
I tried to stay away.... but its like a train wreck.... and one i have been a passenger on (and am still trying to gain a full recovery from) but I feel I need to say this:
This thread has taught me more about people on this forum than any thread about the latest suspension change or interior enhancement.
It has taught me that some people I had "internet respect" for I really need to meet and become much better friends with - and it has also taught me what a bunch of FU#*ING oxygen thieves some people can be.....
The advice here borders on the sublime to the ridiculous !!
Back on topic - Steve - I hope you get what you are looking for - but if you post another "What should I do?/sell?/my wife says my car is too expensive thread" (or similar) I hope you get fried by anyone that responds to that thread.
OUT (for good)
Simon.
I tried to stay away.... but its like a train wreck.... and one i have been a passenger on (and am still trying to gain a full recovery from) but I feel I need to say this:
This thread has taught me more about people on this forum than any thread about the latest suspension change or interior enhancement.
It has taught me that some people I had "internet respect" for I really need to meet and become much better friends with - and it has also taught me what a bunch of FU#*ING oxygen thieves some people can be.....
The advice here borders on the sublime to the ridiculous !!
Back on topic - Steve - I hope you get what you are looking for - but if you post another "What should I do?/sell?/my wife says my car is too expensive thread" (or similar) I hope you get fried by anyone that responds to that thread.
OUT (for good)
Simon.
03-10-2010, 10:12 AM
#209
Race Car
Interesting thread...
Steve, hope the best for you. Like the song says, "we live in a material world...", but that doesn't mean that material stuff should own us. You own material stuff when you can afford it. Do what's you feel is right for your family.
Steve, hope the best for you. Like the song says, "we live in a material world...", but that doesn't mean that material stuff should own us. You own material stuff when you can afford it. Do what's you feel is right for your family.
03-10-2010, 10:15 AM
#210
Drifting
Steve:
I admire your candor in all of this.
My wife and I went through a lean stretch during the early eighties, and I know how difficult lifestyle changes are.
Good luck to you.
I admire your candor in all of this.
My wife and I went through a lean stretch during the early eighties, and I know how difficult lifestyle changes are.
Good luck to you.