Getting desperate! Is a C2S with a tiptronic transmission worth it?
10-15-2009, 03:54 AM
#46
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Thread Starter
No one really answered your original question. The SMG transmissions on modern cars is essentially a manual transmission with an electronic clutch. There is no clutch pedal to change gears. Insead, paddle levers on the steering wheel do the gear changes. The time for a gear change varies a whole lot. On current F1 cars, I think I recall reading gear changes are done in approx .1 sec. On my 993 with Tip, it takes more like 1 second. The best of the current "road car SMG's" probably take .3 seconds, almost as fast as you can shift a manual. I think the current 997 Turbo with its current implementation of the Tiptronic (or maybe it's now an SMG) is faster then the manual (to 60 mph) because the SMG/Tip can shift faster than you can manually.
The other point is when you come to stop, if the SMG does not have a torque converter, then it has to declutch in order to have the engine run while the car is at a stop.
Modern SMG's also "blip" the throttle to match the engine speed when you select a lower gear. And it matches the engine speed "exactly" so there is no lurch (either back or forward) when the lower gear is engaged.
I can tell you driving around greater Seattle, the Tip makes the car much more enjoyable than with a manual. I've owned both types of cars in Seattle and now having owned a 993/Tip, I would never go back to a manual for everyday use.
Don't let the folks here assault your manhood if you decide to buy a Tip. Current F1 drivers only use SMG transmissions. And they are definately not wimps. It's simply a matter of what makes you faster.
Regarding the "delay" in a 993 Tip in shifting, the 1 second it takes to shift up (for some reason, I find downshifts are much faster) is something you ajust to within a few shifts. On downshifting, I find I have to "blip" the throttle to match engine speed to the lower gear. You can let the transmission do it for you, but I like to do it manually.
If you search on transmissions problems on, for example, the PCA national web site, you will find many references to the Tip being "rock solid". Lots of comments from independent mechanics who post there such as: "I've never had one go bad".
The other point is when you come to stop, if the SMG does not have a torque converter, then it has to declutch in order to have the engine run while the car is at a stop.
Modern SMG's also "blip" the throttle to match the engine speed when you select a lower gear. And it matches the engine speed "exactly" so there is no lurch (either back or forward) when the lower gear is engaged.
I can tell you driving around greater Seattle, the Tip makes the car much more enjoyable than with a manual. I've owned both types of cars in Seattle and now having owned a 993/Tip, I would never go back to a manual for everyday use.
Don't let the folks here assault your manhood if you decide to buy a Tip. Current F1 drivers only use SMG transmissions. And they are definately not wimps. It's simply a matter of what makes you faster.
Regarding the "delay" in a 993 Tip in shifting, the 1 second it takes to shift up (for some reason, I find downshifts are much faster) is something you ajust to within a few shifts. On downshifting, I find I have to "blip" the throttle to match engine speed to the lower gear. You can let the transmission do it for you, but I like to do it manually.
If you search on transmissions problems on, for example, the PCA national web site, you will find many references to the Tip being "rock solid". Lots of comments from independent mechanics who post there such as: "I've never had one go bad".
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/595...lutch-gearbox/
10-15-2009, 07:29 AM
#47
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Bought a '95 cab tip a couple of months ago. Love everything about the car. Buy what you like and just enjoy it, life IS too short. I could honestly care less about what someone thinks about my "manhood" because of the tranny. Bottom line, its a 993!!!!
10-15-2009, 08:02 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
Mercedes provided Porsche with transmissions as of 996 model 1998 - 2001.
After it was AISIN from Japan, regards
10-17-2009, 10:24 PM
#51
10-18-2009, 12:07 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
For the type of mostly city driving I do, I should have gotten a tip. Shifting all the time in bumper to bumper traffic is a total drag. I purposely don't take my car out much due to the pain of shifting all day long. If I had a Tip, I would drive my car A LOT more! All depends on what you want. The older I get, I'm 48 now, the less I care about blazing performance unless it has to do with my computer.
When it came down to it, I DID care too much what my friends would say so I bought a 6 speed manual. Having to do it all over again, a C2S Tip or Targa Tip would be in my garage with a lot more miles on it than I have on it now, after 6 years of ownership.
Only you know what you want, though. What is it?
When it came down to it, I DID care too much what my friends would say so I bought a 6 speed manual. Having to do it all over again, a C2S Tip or Targa Tip would be in my garage with a lot more miles on it than I have on it now, after 6 years of ownership.
Only you know what you want, though. What is it?
10-18-2009, 02:03 PM
#54
Race Director
I wouldn't ever consider a tiptronic in a 993. The whole purpose of the car is the driving experience and involvement. An automatic transmission takes away from the connection with the car. Real die hard manual guys will never consider an automatic, even if its one of them fancy doohickeys nowadays.
Don't skimp, get what you really want.
Don't skimp, get what you really want.
10-18-2009, 03:30 PM
#55
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The biggest mistake you can make is listening to the guys named P O R S C H E to learn what the purpose of the car is. You should only care about what a guy sitting at a computer in NJ has to say. Seriously.
10-18-2009, 05:40 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
The whole purpose of the car is the driving experience and involvement. An automatic transmission takes away from the connection with the car. Real die hard manual guys will never consider an automatic, even if its one of them fancy doohickeys nowadays.
Don't skimp, get what you really want.
Don't skimp, get what you really want.
Good luck,
Steve R
10-18-2009, 06:05 PM
#57
Race Director
Porsche is a business, they will do almost anything to make a buck (see cayenne and panamera). They realize not everyone can drive a stick, and therefore will stick one even in the 911.
Did the GT3 come with a tiptronic? Did the original 911s? Did the 993 Turbo?
Porsche panders to the average high end consumer, which means an automatic is a must have option.
10-18-2009, 10:07 PM
#58
I wouldn't ever consider a tiptronic in a 993. The whole purpose of the car is the driving experience and involvement. An automatic transmission takes away from the connection with the car. Real die hard manual guys will never consider an automatic, even if its one of them fancy doohickeys nowadays.
Don't skimp, get what you really want.
Don't skimp, get what you really want.
But these days, I think if I wanted a modern Porsche to track, I'd seriously consider PDK. It would give me better lap times and I'd be concentrating on the corners, etc.. I think the involvement will still be there.
With just daily driving, I'm not sure. But I did drive a PDK 997 and it was pretty amazing how fast it shifts. I think it's possible I might be kinda okay with the "fancy nowadays doohickey" thing. But not so much on a 993.
10-19-2009, 01:13 AM
#59
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This reminds me of how as I got older and my friends got older, I was struck by how much they reminded me of their fathers. You know the conversation: "they don't make them like they used to" or "kids don't respect anything - as opposed to how we were when we were kids" or "modern music does not compare to the music when we were kids"
Cars have gotten better and better. Current F1 drivers make $40 million/year or more. Guess what" They don't measure themselves on whether they can downshift better then their compatriots. They only care about whether the tools they're given make them faster or not. Hans Stuck would no more want to drive a stick shift in a modern IMSA race than he would also want to adjust the spark advance or have to have a "riding mechanic" on board with him, or use 165/15 R tires.
Re Tiptronic or not. Buy what you like. And the post "a modern PDK tranny shifts faster than a manual" is spot on. I own one and would not want a 6 speed in Seattle's traffic. And frankly, on the rare opportunities I get to "open it up" I don't miss having 6 gears. Besides, if you're driving the car propertly in just about every situation you encounter in US driving, you will never use 6th let alone 5th when you are driving at 9/10ths.
Cars have gotten better and better. Current F1 drivers make $40 million/year or more. Guess what" They don't measure themselves on whether they can downshift better then their compatriots. They only care about whether the tools they're given make them faster or not. Hans Stuck would no more want to drive a stick shift in a modern IMSA race than he would also want to adjust the spark advance or have to have a "riding mechanic" on board with him, or use 165/15 R tires.
Re Tiptronic or not. Buy what you like. And the post "a modern PDK tranny shifts faster than a manual" is spot on. I own one and would not want a 6 speed in Seattle's traffic. And frankly, on the rare opportunities I get to "open it up" I don't miss having 6 gears. Besides, if you're driving the car propertly in just about every situation you encounter in US driving, you will never use 6th let alone 5th when you are driving at 9/10ths.
10-19-2009, 03:36 AM
#60
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I have been reading this post on and off...one thing I don't know if the original poster has driven both a tip or manual 993. Wouldn't that be the final say in this whole debate? If you like the tip get the tip if not, get the stick. I personally wanted a stick, but don't think getting a tip is a sin and, if it was the right car, I would have gotten a tip if that was my only choice. Though that means my wife would want to drive it. ;-)