Warpig

The back story...

At my PPI 2 months ago the tech said I needed new shocks/struts all around and alignment & corner balance. He also mentioned that the car is already lowered with Eibach springs (no idea what model) but the stock struts/shocks are all bad and need replacing.

I have been driving the car sparingly over the past two months and after getting caught in the rain one day and having a very scary experience with the car wandering everywhere and feeling like it would go off the road at any moment. I was terrified driving at even 40 mph on the expressway as it felt like the car was going to go into the ditch at any moment. This is not a problem on dry roads and is less of a problem on wet roads when the pavement is perfect, but on wet crappy roads the car is the scariest car i have ever driven in my 21 years of driving.

The rear tires are worn and need to be replaced and will be replaced when the suspension is done. I have no intentions of ever tracking or autox'ing the car. It is my summer fun car and a garage queen all winter. I have been looking at suspension options...

Due to the fact that I don't have any intent to track the car and I really can't afford to put $3300+ (installed) PSS10's in the car and really don't care about being able to dial in the suspension or ride height, I just want the car safe and stable to drive as a summer car and I like the ride height where it is now.



I am considering going with Bilstein HD's and keeping the Ebiach springs currently on the car (since I am happy with the ride height). I have read the
DIY Suspension Install For Dummies and except for being shy of a few of the required tools am not intimidated by replacing the shocks/struts myself, however that's all I want to replace if I can get away with it. I don't see any reason I could not complete that DIY with the correct tools and then driving it in to get an alignment/corner balance.

My concern is that I really don't know the contributing factors of the severe wandering the car exhibits on crappy wet roads and that behavior is my 1st priority to have corrected since I do not feel safe driving the car in the rain at all and have never experienced this in my 21 years of driving.

I am also considering ordering the Porsche M033 Lowering kit (~$800)
Porsche M033 Lowering kit that comes with shocks and springs. I am hesitant to do this as I don't know if my springs need to be replaced, I assume they are fine. I really don't think I want to put the same crappy original shocks/struts on the car that are bad now however the price for the kit is attractive.

Anyone with any input/insight/ideas/suggestions etc. please chime in.

Thanks,

Nick

Warpig

Just saw the "Rear End Wandering" thread and it seems as if much of my problem may be alignment related along with the fact that my rear tires are at the wear indicators and need to be replaced. I've never had worn rear tires cause a wandering problem in any other car, but again any other car I have ever owned does not have a Porsche rear suspension. Still looking for feedback if anyone has any. Anyplace good to get aligned & corner balanced that knows 993's and can do kinematic toe in the Chicagoland area?

Nick

matt777

Sounds like new tires and an alignment are required at minimum. As far as suspension, you have the choice of stock, Bilstein HD or Bilstein PSS10s if the budget allows. Just take the car to someone who knows and does Porsche's. I just took mine to the dealer. They weren't any more expensive than the local specialty shop.

craig001

I know this sounds stupid, but what are the tire pressures? I have noticed both with ly previous p-cars and a friends 996 that a drop in four pounds or more can make a difference in the feel of the car.

cmat

Nick,

Tire tread depth is critical in rain. I just have gone through a similar experience. I changed to Bilstein HD's with my TechArt springs (I think made by Eibach) and had a proper alignment/corner balance done but held off on tires. My rears were well worn and I got caught in some heavy rain. The rear end was moving around even at moderate speeds. Very scary! The wide tires really aggravate aquaplaning. Mine are 18's.

Just put on a set of Yokohama AVAN S4's, an all-season tire. My car is mainly used on the street and is driven in cold weather. This tire is rated high for wear and ride comfort but also has a decent performance rating. This alone transformed the car, not only in the rain but they have taken the edge off the ride harshness.

Fischer Motors in Barrington or Perfect Power in Buffalo Grove can take care of your allignment. PM me and I can give you more information. I'd be happy to let you drive my car. Looks like we have similar goals.

air eater

You may need suspension parts, but generally the corner balancing is for track set-up.
I've never had my C4s corner balanced and it tracks as straight as the day it was new.

FisterD

Nick,
Poor handling in the wet is usually tire wear. I have had this happen to me, and it was very scary...I wasn't sure I was going to make it home. So I think tires are definitely an issue.
If your shocks/struts need replacing, Bilstein HDs would be a good alternative with your existing springs.
After this, I think you need a good alignment. I don't feel that corner balancing is necessary on a street car.

Canyon56

+1 on what Darin says. Put on some new tires, difference will be huge. And new shocks and alignment. I'd think you would be set to go with that, and with no more $$ spent for now.

Afterwards you can think about further suspension mods. But tires, shocks, and an alignment right now will make it safe. And enjoyable to drive.

Save the $$ from spending on a corner balance and the lowering kit for the tires, etc.. and other maintenance.
p.s, how many miles on it?

CaptainGSR

Looks like the HDs with your Eibach springs would be perfect for you.

Warpig

Thanks for all the feedback guys. As I said it was just really scary as I've had rear tires on cars before that were worn down to nothing and never experienced this, however this is the first car I have ever owned with Independent rear suspension and not a solid rear axle (differential) and I'm sure that's why I have never experienced it before.


Tire pressure is off but the same at all corners at 31psi (a little soft no?)


Funny my 2000 Trans Am has 285x35x18's on it 30mm wider than the 255's on the 911 but I guess the solid rear axle will gain you some stability when traction is reduced due to worn tires.


I was almost more sure I was gonna end up in the ditch than at home I've spun cars out before and had all kinds of fun in my 21 years driving but that 45 minute ride home was the worst drive I ever had and it was only a light rain. I felt like you do when you loose control and don't know where youre going but felt that way for 45 minutes straight. BTW Darin I shot you an e-mail.


Glad to hear a corner balance is not needed. I may try to scrape up the tools I still need to do the DIY shocks/struts change myself. I have installed shocks/struts on cars before with no problem so It doesn't intimidate me. The DIY looks straight forward. I really should have some of those tools anyhow.

So for now I think I'm going to go with my current Eibach springs and Bilstein HD's with new rubber all around and an alignment.

As for the car it's a 95 and had 34K on it when I bought it a couple months ago. A previous invoice shows the car was only driven 3000 miles since 2004. I have put 2000 on her in the past 2 months PPI tech said as most of the issues with the car at PPI were bushing/seal related, he said it was obvious the car has been sitting for a long time. He blamed the shocks being bad on the car sitting. I paid 28K for it with the full knowledge it needed Shocks/struts all around @ ~$2000 (and soon) so I have been preparing for this day, however It would have worked out nicer if the rear tires would have lasted until I put the car away for the winter (my summer cars normally get put up around thanksgiving) Unless the weather starts to get crappy I want to enjoy her some more this season before putting her away. Just pulled my PPI list of things to do. Here is their synopsis of the car at PPI.

Test Drive, Front suspension feels worn, engine runs well, brakes work ok 50% left and no wear issues. All interior functions work, AC is cold. Wheel/alignment is off. Very slight oil seepage from both valve covers. remainder of engine, gearbox, front cooler dry. Air filter and cabin filters dirty need replacing. Front hood struts weak, cigar lighter fuse blown, engine shields missing. Shifter is sloppy most likely cups/bushings. Confirmed struts/shocks are bad. No evidence of impact damage or repairs. HVAC shows stored code for 2nd stage rear blower (is functional at this time). I also have a two page checklist with notes on it stating it needs wiper blades, air filter & cabin filters
Overall a nice car.


I agree, I think that is the route I will take for now.

Thanks everyone,

Nick

timothymoffat

Tires, alignment, shocks. In that order. Could do all three for ~$2500, maybe even less. Car has perfect stance BTW.

Warpig

Thanks for the comments on the cars stance. I like it too. I think the Eibach springs are gonna stay for now. As for Tires, alignment, shocks (in that order) is that the order they should be done in? I swear I read somewhere that you wanted to do the shocks before the alignment because you need to rip it all apart to put in the shocks and when you put it back together how will you know it's still aligned correctly? Maybe I misunderstood something, it would seem to me that I should probably do shocks/alignment/tires or tires/shocks/alignment.

Nick

FisterD

shocks/struts...THEN alignment.....

timothymoffat

Sorry for the confusion, I should have read my post closer before posting. "Tires, alignment, shocks" was meant as a priority list. Of course any suspension change would require an alignment afterwards. I've always thought it was a good idea to get the alignment checked/adjusted when putting on new tires as well.

Doing all of the above in one hit may seem costly but the difference will amaze. I've put new shocks/struts and springs as well as new tires on both of my cars after purchase and it transforms the way the car feels.