einreb92

I took the car to a Porsche mechanic for inspection today and the OBD still had not reset and of course I failed again ($80 bucks later). So I took the chance to try another round of the BMW reset. This time it worked and the engine light came back on. I went back and he scanned the car again. The five cylinder misfire was noted again. They didn't have time to check it out today (and I'm due at my regular shop on Thursday) but he told me that both lower v/covers and the chain cover had leaks. I knew about the right side lower, but was surprised to hear about the others. He also told me the driver's side had been re-sprayed...a nice job but it had been done. The PO never disclosed this to me, not that it would have been a deal breaker, but it would have been nice to know. He also discovered that the belt sensor had been disconnected and the other part of that wiring assembly was missing. The two indicator bulbs at the rear were also missing.
My initial thoughts were that at least it doesn't appear to be a SAI related event (at least not yet). The gasket issue is a tough one. I don't mind paying for the job if it will give me peace of mind that the car is not dripping oil all the time, but can't help but remember that the guy who did the inspection never mentioned the extent of the leaking except for the lower passenger v/c. I was told the total job for all the gaskets is ~$1,700.00. Should I try to get the PO/ mechanic to chip in, especially in light of the fraudulent actions?
The other thought is that I don't yet know the cause of the misfire. The guy here said in this particular car, what he usually sees is that the spark plug wire is often not properly seated. That of course, is best case scenario. I don't know if it is prudent to go after the PO for the leaks, but think it is fair to have him pay for the emission related problem whatever it is since somebody on his end removed the bulb. What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
Bernie

Kika

It certianly doesn't hurt to inquire, but if the PO denies any knowledge, it would be hard to prove.

g_murray

Personally -- *unless* you got this thing at a really fantastic bottom-low price - and I mean bottom-low and not just a 'good deal' - (then) I would offload this thing like the metaphorical hot-potato.

E-bay dispute -- item 'not as advertised' -- start with that (if it's not too late), etc. etc.

If you DID get it at an unbelievably low-low price -- then suck it up - you 'got' what you paid for -- and now you have to put some moolaw into it - so as to bring it up to snuff - to your own personal satisfaction -- to a reasonable safety/drivable standard, etc.

I hate to say this but you will probably find that the amount of $ that you are going to (now) put 'into it' -- may make the math add up to a 'total' (i.e. initial cost + necessary maintenance/upgrades) -- that will be 'very close' to the price you *would* have paid for a similar car albeit in better condition that, at the time, appeared to be, monetarily, out of your league.

Let me make a prediction: You'll put $ into this thing but your 'heart' won't be into it - and you'll end up selling it / offloading it within 6 mo'. Why? because right from the get-go -- 'emotionally' your experience of acquiring such a vehicle has been 'tainted'. Of course, if you are made of 'stronger stuff' then more power to you. Put all this 'bad experience' behind you - do what's necessary - and enjoy your ride.

I hope it's the latter, so that you stay with, and enjoy, the 993 and stay with us, the Rennlisters of the 993 forum.

Cordially,
Gerry

AOW162435

Bernie,
As each new development unfolds and gets posted here, I can't help but wonder when you will strap this car onto an enormous trebuchet and launch it back to whence it came...

In a way, I actually mean that.


Andreas

ilko

I would go after the previous owner and the mechanic with any and every means possible. Lawyers, BBB, Ebay, whatever.

Davies

Yikes. Your misfire could be a whole bunch of stuff, but dried out plug wires are the most likely culprit.
The leaks are annoying but normal and fixable. CEL bulb removed is just plain criminal. I'd get a refund for the PPI for starters. Anything else would involve the use of Andreas' aforementioned trebuchet.

einreb92

Gerry, I don't think I got an unbelievable price considering what I thought I purchased and what I actually got. I'll take the hit on that one because I couldn't go see the car before I purchased it and relied on the mechanic's report. My bad (as the kids say). All other things aside, the issue of the "removed bulb' is what really sticks in my craw. It may be, as the owner protests, that he did not know about any of this. It turns out for all his banter etc, he is a buy 'em and drive 'em kind of guy. No shame in that. But don't misrepresent the condition is all I asked. What I especially liked about your comments is that fact that you are asking me to take stock of the type of individual I am. Thanks! I have to think hard about this one. I tend NOT to be the kind of guy that gets involved and walks away. If I can find a way to swing it financially, I think I'll stay the course but would like to be able to recoup something for the chicanery and the illegal actions as a buffer.
Ebay seems more than willing to assist me but wants me to try and work it out with the PO. I am sensing the guy thinks that by sending me the missing spare tire, he has already gone out of his way to make me happy. Your other astute comment was about the cost of the car plus what I will have to shell out. Right on the money, Only I had enough cash to do business (with a small reserve) and hoped I would have 6 mths to a year before this kind of thing had to be addressed. Not to be. I guess I should have stayed on the porch and let the big dogs have their day. Finally, I took your last comment about staying with the guys on this forum to heart and thank you very much for your concern and your wisdom. I really mean it.

Andreas, I love trebuchets and have built many with my son when he was in middle school. If I could find a hopper big enough, I'd follow your suggestion to the letter, but that would leave me with nothing to show for my dollar, my efforts or the energy you all have put into being supportive.

Matt, I already made arrangements for the gaskets independent of any legal action, although it does bring up the fact that if I do all this repair work before any resolution btw myself and the PO, how do I prove these things needed to be done because of misrepresentation? I can't wait for my mechanic to see the car and laugh me out of the shop for not following his advice about buying a 87-89 911 and being stupid enough to buy one with more than 60k on the clock. I'll have to drink scotch before I see him on Thursday.

Again, thanks to all of you for being supportive and telling it as you see it. I always value the perspective of someone who is not where I feel I am; standing on his toes up to his neck in S**t.
I promise I will not use this forum to whine ever again!
Regards
Bernie

AOW162435

Bernie,
I do wish you all the best with this matter, trebuchet comment or not!


Andreas

Don Plumley

The bulb out of the CEL is a big time no-no. Perhaps you can check and determine if in the Seller's State if that is considered tampering with vehicle emissions equipment. If so, I'd hold that card until they either a) take the car back (preferable) or b) make you whole.

Regarding the random misfires - I had this problem for a while. Does it idle rough when warm or is it just throwing off the codes? Off the top of my head, here are some potential culprits from easy to really expensive:

Non OEM Fan belt
O2 Sensor, Wiring
Vacuum Leak
MAF dirty
Dirty Injectors
Ignition: Wires/Caps/Rotors/Plugs worn
Various Hall sensor issues
Failing Dual Mass Flywheel
Badly worn valve guides.

Given what else I've heard about the car, I wouldn't bet against the last two. A good wrench with a PST2 can diagnose it easy enough. The definitive test for the failing DMF is to put the car up on the rack, put the car in gear, in idle, then use the PST2 to watch the flywheel sensor output.

Good luck,

Don

Richard C2S

Bernie,

I'm in the Philadelphia area, have a C2S, and would like to know who your mechanic is and which Porsche mechanic looked at your car.

If you would prefer, send me a private message.

Thanks,
Richard

NP993

+993

Marv

Mine threw misfire codes and the engine ran fine. The sensors are sensitive. I'd start with $200 and buy a new set of wires from Vertex and do the plugs, too (another $100). That way you are good for another 50K miles or more.

I consider that a standard operating procedure just like replacing belts, rotor, caps, brakes, air filters, wipers, oil filters, etc. If any of the normal items like those are not current or known when they were last replaced, just clean house. Also, keep a spare belt in the trunk!

You have to clean house first before you can go the next step and determine if you need more work with the codes. That assumes you are keeping the car.

If you are keeping the car, just do the work above and get the oil leaks fixed. Reset the codes, drive it and see what happens.

ironimages

Just wondering did you do a CARFAX on the car before purchase? Not that there all that valuable but you never know what you might uncover? I'm asking as that looking at buying my first Porsche 993 with in the next year or so, so looking at all info streams seems to be a good idea?

Bearclaw

Carfax can certainly be fooled - titles can be washed, etc. But it is a good first line of defense. Before you get serious enough for a PPI, it's good to run the car through Carfax and Autocheck. I've found numerous times where Carfax catches something that Autocheck does not, or vice-versa. There is a car currently being discussed on the 964 forum with a mileage discrepancy issue that shows in Carfax, but not in Autocheck.

RallyJon

LOL--I think many of us can say that from experience.

Bernie, do you have anything in writing from the mechanic? As far as I know, people privately selling cars are assumed to be morons, and are not liable for misstatements. But if any of the stuff you find is contradicted by the mechanic's report, that's your best angle. Really a question for a lawyer, though--it may be you have a valid claim for something unrelated to your primary concerns, but if that's your only angle, that's how you should play it.