Car rides way too rough after Bilstein HD/M030's. May have been a bad choice...
11-12-2008, 09:50 AM
#17
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When the shocks (HD Bilsteins) and springs (H & R) were changed on my car the ride was rough until the new tires and wheels (18") were installed. This made a HUGE difference in the ride and tramlining. My front tires had cupping and not much tread left too. The car had been completely transformed with the new tires and 18" wheels. The ride and the smoothness with all of the suspension and wheels/tires installed was like night and day. It is my understanding that the H & R springs are a little more taught than the M030 springs.
I hope that you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction.
I hope that you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction.
11-12-2008, 09:50 AM
#18
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Steve,
Perhaps you should sell your 993 ?? You're going to drive yourself nuts getting this sorted out.
Your previous several threads have been seemingly disenchanted with the car.
How 'bout something a bit more user friendy for you......maybe a Boxster or Cayman ???
Perhaps you should sell your 993 ?? You're going to drive yourself nuts getting this sorted out.
Your previous several threads have been seemingly disenchanted with the car.
How 'bout something a bit more user friendy for you......maybe a Boxster or Cayman ???
11-12-2008, 09:51 AM
#19
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I am sorry about your experience. When I replaced my stock setup with the M030/Bilstein HD combo, my ride quality actually improved, and my tramlining was reduced or at least stayed the same - not an issue, in either case. I suspect something else may be going on that is causing the situation you describe, although what that may be, I am unqualified to say or speculate.
Don't give up on the car - once sorted out, these things are wonderful machines!
Don't give up on the car - once sorted out, these things are wonderful machines!
11-12-2008, 09:57 AM
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My ride quality actually IMPROVED, too! I couldn't believe how smooth the car was driving over train tracks. My car only had 20k miles on it, but I guess things like the bump stops dried up. After I added 18" wheels, the quality diminished somewhat, but it is still acceptable even here in Boston. I wish you lived closer so you could drive my car. Well, if you're ever in Boston in any season but winter....Good luck and don't give up!
11-12-2008, 10:17 AM
#21
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Let's not forget that ride "quality" has a subjective component to it. If the OP wants a BMW 7-series ride, the solution may be a little different than for someone who wants cat-like handling.
11-12-2008, 10:32 AM
#23
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Thread Starter
I did do my research and thought this would be the way to go. I still love the looks of the car and the way it drives on smooth roads. I believe with time and more money I can get this problem sorted out. I can't change to another set of springs and shocks as that would cost too much money. Yeah, maybe I should have just gone the Monroe route but I didn't so I'll deal with what I have for now. I can't switch to 17's either as the 18s look so good on the car. My repair gentleman said he usually recommends the stock suspension Monroes to replace a worn one for just street driving like I do in DC and MD. He said my set up is for guys that track their cars.
If I sold this car, the car I said I'd never sell, it would be a very sad day. I'd also have to sell all the 993 framed posters in my garage as I couldn't stand to look at them without owning the car! It would also be a stupid option for me to sell the car, given my affection for the beast.
Thanks everyone for your comments, the good and the hard to read ones.
Steve R
Last edited by Steve 96C4S; 11-12-2008 at 10:51 AM.
11-12-2008, 11:41 AM
#24
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Steve,
You have a stiffer ride---period. There is nothing you can do but live with it or swap it out for something different. That is reality. It may rattle your fillings a little but for sure you have BETTER set up.
Not that it matters but here was my suggestion a few months ago.
"I think you have M033 and HDs written all over you Steve. Your going to get a great suspension upgrade and a softer ride. Thats about the only difference, in my opinion, your going to see from an "average" driver. I would classify myself as an average driver that likes the raw feel of a sports car.....and plays around on windy, mountain roads, and not Sunday drive behavior. Hence the M030 option for me. It seemed like a good fit for ME. There are a number of positive comments on the M033's and dont think I have seen post where anyone says they suck or I wished I had done something different. "
and this is what you said
"Hey wait a minute, I don't want to be average, I want that "raw feel of a sports car" as you put it. Doesn't that put me in the "he-man category" of M030 owners? I see myself "playing on windy, mountain roads"... well, once or twice a year. "Sunday drive behavior?" Uh uh. Once I get my new suspension set up, I plan on chewing tobacco, spitting it out the window at Sunday drivers, and driving like a bat out of hell... till I spool up to about 35 mph. Where I live it seems like there's a speed camera on every road and a traffic red light camera at every light, so driving past the speed limit will get me a $40 ticket. But I could find some nice twisties on my new set up and enjoy the heck out of that ole car... till I hit the speed limit of 40 mph"
You got the real deal---the raw feel of a sports car---MO30/HD handed to you on a platter.
Im not being harsh or rubbing it in. I tell it like it is.
You have a stiffer ride---period. There is nothing you can do but live with it or swap it out for something different. That is reality. It may rattle your fillings a little but for sure you have BETTER set up.
Not that it matters but here was my suggestion a few months ago.
"I think you have M033 and HDs written all over you Steve. Your going to get a great suspension upgrade and a softer ride. Thats about the only difference, in my opinion, your going to see from an "average" driver. I would classify myself as an average driver that likes the raw feel of a sports car.....and plays around on windy, mountain roads, and not Sunday drive behavior. Hence the M030 option for me. It seemed like a good fit for ME. There are a number of positive comments on the M033's and dont think I have seen post where anyone says they suck or I wished I had done something different. "
and this is what you said
"Hey wait a minute, I don't want to be average, I want that "raw feel of a sports car" as you put it. Doesn't that put me in the "he-man category" of M030 owners? I see myself "playing on windy, mountain roads"... well, once or twice a year. "Sunday drive behavior?" Uh uh. Once I get my new suspension set up, I plan on chewing tobacco, spitting it out the window at Sunday drivers, and driving like a bat out of hell... till I spool up to about 35 mph. Where I live it seems like there's a speed camera on every road and a traffic red light camera at every light, so driving past the speed limit will get me a $40 ticket. But I could find some nice twisties on my new set up and enjoy the heck out of that ole car... till I hit the speed limit of 40 mph"
You got the real deal---the raw feel of a sports car---MO30/HD handed to you on a platter.
Im not being harsh or rubbing it in. I tell it like it is.
Last edited by 95 C4 993; 11-12-2008 at 11:59 AM.
11-12-2008, 11:42 AM
#25
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HD's are generally stock replacement shocks, ones that should last longer than Monroes. Be glad to went with at least HD's -- I feel they are on the soft side of things, to be honest.
Best would be to get your alignment back closer to standard, not near RS specs -- front camber alone will make the front darty, which sounds like may be part of your problem.
There is the chance you have a defective shock, wouldnt be the first time with Bilstein. Honestly!
Here is what I would do before spending any more money -- find a local Rennlister with a similar set up, drive their car for some time, over typical roads you drive your car on. Then, see if someone local to you would swap wheels and tires just to feel the difference, if any. These steps might help you determine if your ride is really bad.
The worst thing to do is go changing things around without really know what the problem really is.
With the car from a global perspective (and all of the things your wrench says it needs), tackly one thing at a time. I am still confused about your shifter rattle problem -- didnt you reinstall your original shifter?
Best would be to get your alignment back closer to standard, not near RS specs -- front camber alone will make the front darty, which sounds like may be part of your problem.
There is the chance you have a defective shock, wouldnt be the first time with Bilstein. Honestly!
Here is what I would do before spending any more money -- find a local Rennlister with a similar set up, drive their car for some time, over typical roads you drive your car on. Then, see if someone local to you would swap wheels and tires just to feel the difference, if any. These steps might help you determine if your ride is really bad.
The worst thing to do is go changing things around without really know what the problem really is.
With the car from a global perspective (and all of the things your wrench says it needs), tackly one thing at a time. I am still confused about your shifter rattle problem -- didnt you reinstall your original shifter?
11-12-2008, 11:42 AM
#26
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HD's are generally stock replacement shocks, ones that should last longer than Monroes. Be glad to went with at least HD's -- I feel they are on the soft side of things, to be honest.
Best would be to get your alignment back closer to standard, not near RS specs -- front camber alone will make the front darty, which sounds like may be part of your problem.
There is the chance you have a defective shock, wouldnt be the first time with Bilstein. Honestly!
Here is what I would do before spending any more money -- find a local Rennlister with a similar set up, drive their car for some time, over typical roads you drive your car on. Then, see if someone local to you would swap wheels and tires just to feel the difference, if any. These steps might help you determine if your ride is really bad.
The worst thing to do is go changing things around without really know what the problem really is.
With the car from a global perspective (and all of the things your wrench says it needs), tackly one thing at a time. I am still confused about your shifter rattle problem -- didnt you reinstall your original shifter?
Best would be to get your alignment back closer to standard, not near RS specs -- front camber alone will make the front darty, which sounds like may be part of your problem.
There is the chance you have a defective shock, wouldnt be the first time with Bilstein. Honestly!
Here is what I would do before spending any more money -- find a local Rennlister with a similar set up, drive their car for some time, over typical roads you drive your car on. Then, see if someone local to you would swap wheels and tires just to feel the difference, if any. These steps might help you determine if your ride is really bad.
The worst thing to do is go changing things around without really know what the problem really is.
With the car from a global perspective (and all of the things your wrench says it needs), tackly one thing at a time. I am still confused about your shifter rattle problem -- didnt you reinstall your original shifter?
11-12-2008, 12:06 PM
#27
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Steve - what kind of tires do you have? Mine had the Bridgestone S02's on it when I bought it and the ride with the stock worn out Monroes was fine. Upon switching to the PSS9's the ride became awful darn harsh. Luckily, not long after that, I had to replace the tires and went with the more modern design Bridgestone RE050A PP. The ride is far more supple now, even after I stiffened up the PSS9's.
11-12-2008, 12:08 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Steve,
You have a stiffer ride---period. There is nothing you can do but live with it or swap it out for something different. That is reality. It may rattle your fillings a little but for sure you have BETTER set up.
Not that it matters but here was my suggestion a few months ago.
"I think you have M033 and HDs written all over you Steve. Your going to get a great suspension upgrade and a softer ride. Thats about the only difference, in my opinion, your going to see from an "average" driver. I would classify myself as an average driver that likes the raw feel of a sports car.....and plays around on windy, mountain roads, and not Sunday drive behavior. Hence the M030 option for me. It seemed like a good fit for ME. There are a number of positive comments on the M033's and dont think I have seen post where anyone says they suck or I wished I had done something different. "
and this is what you said
"Hey wait a minute, I don't want to be average, I want that "raw feel of a sports car" as you put it. Doesn't that put me in the "he-man category" of M030 owners? I see myself "playing on windy, mountain roads"... well, once or twice a year. "Sunday drive behavior?" Uh uh. Once I get my new suspension set up, I plan on chewing tobacco, spitting it out the window at Sunday drivers, and driving like a bat out of hell... till I spool up to about 35 mph. Where I live it seems like there's a speed camera on every road and a traffic red light camera at every light, so driving past the speed limit will get me a $40 ticket. But I could find some nice twisties on my new set up and enjoy the heck out of that ole car... till I hit the speed limit of 40 mph"
You got the real deal---the raw feel of a sports car---MO30/HD handed to you on a platter.
Im not being harsh or rubbing it in. I tell it like it is.
You have a stiffer ride---period. There is nothing you can do but live with it or swap it out for something different. That is reality. It may rattle your fillings a little but for sure you have BETTER set up.
Not that it matters but here was my suggestion a few months ago.
"I think you have M033 and HDs written all over you Steve. Your going to get a great suspension upgrade and a softer ride. Thats about the only difference, in my opinion, your going to see from an "average" driver. I would classify myself as an average driver that likes the raw feel of a sports car.....and plays around on windy, mountain roads, and not Sunday drive behavior. Hence the M030 option for me. It seemed like a good fit for ME. There are a number of positive comments on the M033's and dont think I have seen post where anyone says they suck or I wished I had done something different. "
and this is what you said
"Hey wait a minute, I don't want to be average, I want that "raw feel of a sports car" as you put it. Doesn't that put me in the "he-man category" of M030 owners? I see myself "playing on windy, mountain roads"... well, once or twice a year. "Sunday drive behavior?" Uh uh. Once I get my new suspension set up, I plan on chewing tobacco, spitting it out the window at Sunday drivers, and driving like a bat out of hell... till I spool up to about 35 mph. Where I live it seems like there's a speed camera on every road and a traffic red light camera at every light, so driving past the speed limit will get me a $40 ticket. But I could find some nice twisties on my new set up and enjoy the heck out of that ole car... till I hit the speed limit of 40 mph"
You got the real deal---the raw feel of a sports car---MO30/HD handed to you on a platter.
Im not being harsh or rubbing it in. I tell it like it is.
I will get this fixed, one way or another. And if I can't, I'll just plan to drive my car less on DC's roads and take the Bimmer that day! I do remember your post but I thought ... well, that's where the trouble started, me thinking. In the end, this is all going to be good.Steve - what kind of tires do you have? Mine had the Bridgestone S02's on it when I bought it and the ride with the stock worn out Monroes was fine. Upon switching to the PSS9's the ride became awful darn harsh. Luckily, not long after that, I had to replace the tires and went with the more modern design Bridgestone RE050A PP. The ride is far more supple now, even after I stiffened up the PSS9's.
Last edited by Steve 96C4S; 11-12-2008 at 01:01 PM.
11-12-2008, 12:11 PM
#29
I second or third the comments on your negative camber front and rear. Maybe something closer to -1.10 in the front and -1.50 in the rear. What are your ride heights? 130's front and 120's rear or 140's and 130's ?
11-12-2008, 12:12 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Sorry to hear your experience is not what you had 'anticipated'.
Check the obvious stuff... are your tire pressures too high? Is the suspension setup a smidge too 'aggressive' for 18" wheels? etc.
FWIW, those of us (including me) who have gone the Bilstein/HD/M030/swaybar route have been VERY pleased with the results. (I went down to RS height with 17").
I have no bump steer and I don't tramline and I don't scrape the front, and the ride is 'taut' and 'planted' and NOT bone-jarring. The "deep sixing of the Monroe's" and the "move to Bilstein" has, as said, been a very 'positive' experience.
I've no doubt you'll track this down and will resolve it. You just need to have a little patience. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Gerry
Check the obvious stuff... are your tire pressures too high? Is the suspension setup a smidge too 'aggressive' for 18" wheels? etc.
FWIW, those of us (including me) who have gone the Bilstein/HD/M030/swaybar route have been VERY pleased with the results. (I went down to RS height with 17").
I have no bump steer and I don't tramline and I don't scrape the front, and the ride is 'taut' and 'planted' and NOT bone-jarring. The "deep sixing of the Monroe's" and the "move to Bilstein" has, as said, been a very 'positive' experience.
I've no doubt you'll track this down and will resolve it. You just need to have a little patience. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Gerry