Just got deeply scr*wed....
06-13-2008, 03:40 PM
#181
Rennlist Member
From Wikipedia:
Buyer's remorse is an emotional condition whereby a person feels remorse or regret after a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of higher value items therefore be considered "bad" although it may also stem from a sense of not wishing to be "wrong". In an extreme situation, an individual who struggles with or cannot accept the possibility that they may have made a mistake, may be suffering from a more serious and severe condition that has truly little to do with "buyer's remorse".
The anxiety may be rooted by various factors: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, or that the purchase will be acceptable to others.
Psychologically, in the phase before purchasing, the prospective buyer feels the positive emotions associated with the purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an intimation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example): afterwards, having made the purchase, he or she is more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase; and the reduced purchasing power remaining.
Before the act, one has the full array of options, including not purchasing; afterwards, one's options have been reduced to two: a) continuing with the purchase, surrendering all alternatives, or b) renouncing it. So that before purchasing, one experiences oneself as acting in a virile way, creating a situation; while afterwards the time of acting has passed: one is deflated and experiences oneself as having been acted on by the former virile self; one feels bound by one's remaining limited choices.
Buyer's remorse can be caused or increased by the knowledge that other people will later question the purchase or claim to know better alternatives.
A purchase, unlike many decisions in life, is invariably either reversible or at least recoverable and should not be a source of enormous anxiety.
Buyer's remorse, when evidence exists that it is justified, is a classical example of cognitive dissonance. One will either seek to discount the new evidence, or truly regret and try to renounce the purchase.
Buyer's remorse is an emotional condition whereby a person feels remorse or regret after a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of higher value items therefore be considered "bad" although it may also stem from a sense of not wishing to be "wrong". In an extreme situation, an individual who struggles with or cannot accept the possibility that they may have made a mistake, may be suffering from a more serious and severe condition that has truly little to do with "buyer's remorse".
The anxiety may be rooted by various factors: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, or that the purchase will be acceptable to others.
Psychologically, in the phase before purchasing, the prospective buyer feels the positive emotions associated with the purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an intimation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example): afterwards, having made the purchase, he or she is more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase; and the reduced purchasing power remaining.
Before the act, one has the full array of options, including not purchasing; afterwards, one's options have been reduced to two: a) continuing with the purchase, surrendering all alternatives, or b) renouncing it. So that before purchasing, one experiences oneself as acting in a virile way, creating a situation; while afterwards the time of acting has passed: one is deflated and experiences oneself as having been acted on by the former virile self; one feels bound by one's remaining limited choices.
Buyer's remorse can be caused or increased by the knowledge that other people will later question the purchase or claim to know better alternatives.
A purchase, unlike many decisions in life, is invariably either reversible or at least recoverable and should not be a source of enormous anxiety.
Buyer's remorse, when evidence exists that it is justified, is a classical example of cognitive dissonance. One will either seek to discount the new evidence, or truly regret and try to renounce the purchase.
06-13-2008, 03:43 PM
#183
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Don't be sorry - that was a great story, and like most true stories was a huge laugh. Still wipeing away the tears of laughter! I hope the other story has a happy conclusion. Good luck!
06-13-2008, 03:45 PM
#184
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The price adds an additional dimension. I thought that Matt was being a bit unreasonable here, with such high standards. But there is absolutely the implication (whether legal or not) that if you pay a premium price, you have the right to expect a premium product. And of course, when you buy something for a very low price, it implies a much lower standard.
If I buy a shirt at Neiman's and it falls apart after two washings, I'll be really pissed. Buy a shirt from Wal-mart and you have a harder time complaining.
It's totally reasonable to expect a '95 C2 with 70-some k miles priced at $44k will be so perfect and clean you could assemble microprocessors sitting in the back seat.
If I buy a shirt at Neiman's and it falls apart after two washings, I'll be really pissed. Buy a shirt from Wal-mart and you have a harder time complaining.
It's totally reasonable to expect a '95 C2 with 70-some k miles priced at $44k will be so perfect and clean you could assemble microprocessors sitting in the back seat.
Secondly, this simile isn't apt because the seller is looking for the highest price possible. If someone came to you with a starting offer of $40k+ for your DE car, would you tell him to take a hike? Of course not.
Without pictures from Matt, this thread continues to spiral away with wild conjecture and innuendo. In Larry's defense, doesn't it only seem fair to wait for pictures? If the pictures from Matt in similar lighting conditions appear the same as Larry's, then Matt is blowing this well out of proportion. Larry has posted a great many pictures on this forum for examination, and the mechanical issues would seem to be a matter solely between the PPI mechanic and the buyer.
As much prurient fun as this is (I mean, $44K for a '95 C2????!!!), I'm reserving judgment until I see pictures of the car from similar angles as the ones Larry has provided.
06-13-2008, 03:47 PM
#185
Three Wheelin'
From Wikipedia:
Buyer's remorse is an emotional condition whereby a person feels remorse or regret after a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of higher value items therefore be considered "bad" although it may also stem from a sense of not wishing to be "wrong". In an extreme situation, an individual who struggles with or cannot accept the possibility that they may have made a mistake, may be suffering from a more serious and severe condition that has truly little to do with "buyer's remorse".
The anxiety may be rooted by various factors: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, or that the purchase will be acceptable to others.
Psychologically, in the phase before purchasing, the prospective buyer feels the positive emotions associated with the purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an intimation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example): afterwards, having made the purchase, he or she is more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase; and the reduced purchasing power remaining.
Before the act, one has the full array of options, including not purchasing; afterwards, one's options have been reduced to two: a) continuing with the purchase, surrendering all alternatives, or b) renouncing it. So that before purchasing, one experiences oneself as acting in a virile way, creating a situation; while afterwards the time of acting has passed: one is deflated and experiences oneself as having been acted on by the former virile self; one feels bound by one's remaining limited choices.
Buyer's remorse can be caused or increased by the knowledge that other people will later question the purchase or claim to know better alternatives.
A purchase, unlike many decisions in life, is invariably either reversible or at least recoverable and should not be a source of enormous anxiety.
Buyer's remorse, when evidence exists that it is justified, is a classical example of cognitive dissonance. One will either seek to discount the new evidence, or truly regret and try to renounce the purchase.
Buyer's remorse is an emotional condition whereby a person feels remorse or regret after a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of higher value items therefore be considered "bad" although it may also stem from a sense of not wishing to be "wrong". In an extreme situation, an individual who struggles with or cannot accept the possibility that they may have made a mistake, may be suffering from a more serious and severe condition that has truly little to do with "buyer's remorse".
The anxiety may be rooted by various factors: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, or that the purchase will be acceptable to others.
Psychologically, in the phase before purchasing, the prospective buyer feels the positive emotions associated with the purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an intimation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example): afterwards, having made the purchase, he or she is more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase; and the reduced purchasing power remaining.
Before the act, one has the full array of options, including not purchasing; afterwards, one's options have been reduced to two: a) continuing with the purchase, surrendering all alternatives, or b) renouncing it. So that before purchasing, one experiences oneself as acting in a virile way, creating a situation; while afterwards the time of acting has passed: one is deflated and experiences oneself as having been acted on by the former virile self; one feels bound by one's remaining limited choices.
Buyer's remorse can be caused or increased by the knowledge that other people will later question the purchase or claim to know better alternatives.
A purchase, unlike many decisions in life, is invariably either reversible or at least recoverable and should not be a source of enormous anxiety.
Buyer's remorse, when evidence exists that it is justified, is a classical example of cognitive dissonance. One will either seek to discount the new evidence, or truly regret and try to renounce the purchase.
06-13-2008, 03:47 PM
#186
From Wikipedia:
Buyer's remorse is an emotional condition whereby a person feels remorse or regret after a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of higher value items therefore be considered "bad" although it may also stem from a sense of not wishing to be "wrong". In an extreme situation, an individual who struggles with or cannot accept the possibility that they may have made a mistake, may be suffering from a more serious and severe condition that has truly little to do with "buyer's remorse".
The anxiety may be rooted by various factors: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, or that the purchase will be acceptable to others.
Psychologically, in the phase before purchasing, the prospective buyer feels the positive emotions associated with the purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an intimation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example): afterwards, having made the purchase, he or she is more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase; and the reduced purchasing power remaining.
Before the act, one has the full array of options, including not purchasing; afterwards, one's options have been reduced to two: a) continuing with the purchase, surrendering all alternatives, or b) renouncing it. So that before purchasing, one experiences oneself as acting in a virile way, creating a situation; while afterwards the time of acting has passed: one is deflated and experiences oneself as having been acted on by the former virile self; one feels bound by one's remaining limited choices.
Buyer's remorse can be caused or increased by the knowledge that other people will later question the purchase or claim to know better alternatives.
A purchase, unlike many decisions in life, is invariably either reversible or at least recoverable and should not be a source of enormous anxiety.
Buyer's remorse, when evidence exists that it is justified, is a classical example of cognitive dissonance. One will either seek to discount the new evidence, or truly regret and try to renounce the purchase.
Buyer's remorse is an emotional condition whereby a person feels remorse or regret after a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of higher value items therefore be considered "bad" although it may also stem from a sense of not wishing to be "wrong". In an extreme situation, an individual who struggles with or cannot accept the possibility that they may have made a mistake, may be suffering from a more serious and severe condition that has truly little to do with "buyer's remorse".
The anxiety may be rooted by various factors: the person's concern they purchased the wrong product, purchased for a bad price, purchased instead of waiting for a newer model, or that the purchase will be acceptable to others.
Psychologically, in the phase before purchasing, the prospective buyer feels the positive emotions associated with the purchase (desire, a sense of heightened possibilities, and an intimation of the enjoyment that will accompany using the product, for example): afterwards, having made the purchase, he or she is more fully able to experience the negative aspects: all the opportunity costs of the purchase; and the reduced purchasing power remaining.
Before the act, one has the full array of options, including not purchasing; afterwards, one's options have been reduced to two: a) continuing with the purchase, surrendering all alternatives, or b) renouncing it. So that before purchasing, one experiences oneself as acting in a virile way, creating a situation; while afterwards the time of acting has passed: one is deflated and experiences oneself as having been acted on by the former virile self; one feels bound by one's remaining limited choices.
Buyer's remorse can be caused or increased by the knowledge that other people will later question the purchase or claim to know better alternatives.
A purchase, unlike many decisions in life, is invariably either reversible or at least recoverable and should not be a source of enormous anxiety.
Buyer's remorse, when evidence exists that it is justified, is a classical example of cognitive dissonance. One will either seek to discount the new evidence, or truly regret and try to renounce the purchase.
06-13-2008, 04:14 PM
#189
Weathergirl
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sometimes buyers are remorseful when they've gotten screwed, too.
Just because there's a term for it, doesn't make it OK. Like, he's got a "syndrome" or something.
"Yeah that woman has rape avoidance anxiety so when those 15 guys jumped her she really overreacted. What a head case."
Well, OK, not the most graceful metaphor, but you see what I mean.
Just because there's a term for it, doesn't make it OK. Like, he's got a "syndrome" or something.
"Yeah that woman has rape avoidance anxiety so when those 15 guys jumped her she really overreacted. What a head case."
Well, OK, not the most graceful metaphor, but you see what I mean.
06-13-2008, 04:19 PM
#190
Rennlist Member
Sometimes buyers are remorseful when they've gotten screwed, too.
Just because there's a term for it, doesn't make it OK. Like, he's got a "syndrome" or something.
"Yeah that woman has rape avoidance anxiety so when those 15 guys jumped her she really overreacted. What a head case."
Well, OK, not the most graceful metaphor, but you see what I mean.
Just because there's a term for it, doesn't make it OK. Like, he's got a "syndrome" or something.
"Yeah that woman has rape avoidance anxiety so when those 15 guys jumped her she really overreacted. What a head case."
Well, OK, not the most graceful metaphor, but you see what I mean.
06-13-2008, 04:23 PM
#191
Rennlist Member
And for you kids at home, here are some of the morals of the story:
1) If possible, do not make large purchases without viewing the item in person.
2) If you contract with a third party to inspect an item, be very clear about what you want inspected, and what your expectations for the item are.
3) Don't buy a large-ticket item in mid-winter and take delivery in June and be surprised when the seller isn't very flexible about renegotiating the transaction.
1) If possible, do not make large purchases without viewing the item in person.
2) If you contract with a third party to inspect an item, be very clear about what you want inspected, and what your expectations for the item are.
3) Don't buy a large-ticket item in mid-winter and take delivery in June and be surprised when the seller isn't very flexible about renegotiating the transaction.
06-13-2008, 04:24 PM
#192
Race Car
$44K? Wow...This surely adds another perspective to this thread.
I wouldn't pay $44K for any plain Jane 95 C2 with 70K miles on it. (Ok...maybe Andreas' with a full year of his own weekly personal detailing included).
Matt went into this deal trusting a fellow rennlister. Yes, he could have been more diligent about the PPI and getting more details about the car from Lawrence, but the seller could have been more open about the real condition of the car before taking the money.
IMHO, $44K for a 95 is prime-pristine-garage queen-low mileage-unmolested-original paint-full service records territory. This car is obviously none of that.
It would take much more than a PPI refund and center caps for me to make this even close to being fair...
I wouldn't pay $44K for any plain Jane 95 C2 with 70K miles on it. (Ok...maybe Andreas' with a full year of his own weekly personal detailing included).
Matt went into this deal trusting a fellow rennlister. Yes, he could have been more diligent about the PPI and getting more details about the car from Lawrence, but the seller could have been more open about the real condition of the car before taking the money.
IMHO, $44K for a 95 is prime-pristine-garage queen-low mileage-unmolested-original paint-full service records territory. This car is obviously none of that.
It would take much more than a PPI refund and center caps for me to make this even close to being fair...
06-13-2008, 04:26 PM
#193
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One thought us that we've got at least a 4 month gap between purchase and collection with the car stored at a third party. There's no guarantee it was stored well, undercover and cherished for that time. A healthy number of these so called issues could have happened in that time. Certainly the collected water, maybe some scratches/dents and who knows what else may be nothing to do with Larry (who's input reads to me like he's a decent guy).
It'd be interesting to know if Larry saw the car between the deal being done and it being collected.
Not accusing the PPI/Storage/Mechanic, just pointing out the possibility
It'd be interesting to know if Larry saw the car between the deal being done and it being collected.
Not accusing the PPI/Storage/Mechanic, just pointing out the possibility
06-13-2008, 04:28 PM
#194
And for you kids at home, here are some of the morals of the story:
1) If possible, do not make large purchases without viewing the item in person.
2) If you contract with a third party to inspect an item, be very clear about what you want inspected, and what your expectations for the item are.
3) Don't buy a large-ticket item in mid-winter and take delivery in June and be surprised when the seller isn't very flexible about renegotiating the transaction.
1) If possible, do not make large purchases without viewing the item in person.
2) If you contract with a third party to inspect an item, be very clear about what you want inspected, and what your expectations for the item are.
3) Don't buy a large-ticket item in mid-winter and take delivery in June and be surprised when the seller isn't very flexible about renegotiating the transaction.
06-13-2008, 04:30 PM
#195
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I really hope 44K included the 19% importation fees, transport etc... If you just paid 44K for the car alone, yes you got a bit hosed.
I want to touch on a couple of things that seem to go un-noticed from personal experience. You said that the car was sitting "inside Dan's shop" for 6 months? How sure you are that the car was actually sitting inside? Your story brings back memories with my race car. After my accident I left my car at my mechanics in Texas for repair. Now i know for sure where my car was at his place and it was inside. When the car went to the body shop though, it was most likely left outside. When i saw my car for the first time after the repair, I was a bit shell shocked to see similar things to what you describe. Dry rotted seals that turned gray, rust in several places on the interior, around the base of my brand new cage, my poor car was in a sad state in general. Scratches on the brand new paint job , my odometer has stopped working, spider webs everywhere and other staff. I did not say anything as I know it was that stupid body shop which did a **** poor job repainting half the car and fitting a panel. Did not have time to argue either, so yeah I felt really hosed from the repair that the body shop did. I still do.
So I wont go to the if's and but's , but I truly think that you should examine the whole PPI, storage issue. There might be much more to the story that the other party as well would be surprised to find out.
just my 02.
I want to touch on a couple of things that seem to go un-noticed from personal experience. You said that the car was sitting "inside Dan's shop" for 6 months? How sure you are that the car was actually sitting inside? Your story brings back memories with my race car. After my accident I left my car at my mechanics in Texas for repair. Now i know for sure where my car was at his place and it was inside. When the car went to the body shop though, it was most likely left outside. When i saw my car for the first time after the repair, I was a bit shell shocked to see similar things to what you describe. Dry rotted seals that turned gray, rust in several places on the interior, around the base of my brand new cage, my poor car was in a sad state in general. Scratches on the brand new paint job , my odometer has stopped working, spider webs everywhere and other staff. I did not say anything as I know it was that stupid body shop which did a **** poor job repainting half the car and fitting a panel. Did not have time to argue either, so yeah I felt really hosed from the repair that the body shop did. I still do.
So I wont go to the if's and but's , but I truly think that you should examine the whole PPI, storage issue. There might be much more to the story that the other party as well would be surprised to find out.
just my 02.