Bang for the buck?
05-12-2008, 01:25 PM
#1
Drifting
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Bang for the buck?
A little OT, but here goes:
Which air-cooled 911 would be the cheapest to buy, quickest, have the lowest cost of ownership and might be well-suited as a DE or track car?
It seems like the post '73 cars are much less collectible than other 911s and owners feel more comfortable "bastardizing" them with later model engines. I've seen a few mid-70s units that had their (leaky? magnesium? 3.0?) engines replaced with 3.2s. Can the mid '70 models be that much lighter? Would a 3.2 be "so much quicker" than the stock engine or would a 3.6 be more "worth it"? Or does the 3.2 have a durablility advantage? There must be some "magic" combination.
Which air-cooled 911 would be the cheapest to buy, quickest, have the lowest cost of ownership and might be well-suited as a DE or track car?
It seems like the post '73 cars are much less collectible than other 911s and owners feel more comfortable "bastardizing" them with later model engines. I've seen a few mid-70s units that had their (leaky? magnesium? 3.0?) engines replaced with 3.2s. Can the mid '70 models be that much lighter? Would a 3.2 be "so much quicker" than the stock engine or would a 3.6 be more "worth it"? Or does the 3.2 have a durablility advantage? There must be some "magic" combination.
05-12-2008, 01:50 PM
#3
There is no air-cooled 911 that meets your requirements. The one that I can think of is a Boxster S.
Every model has its flaws -- 2.7's have awful engines, 3.0's need the head studs replaced, 3.2's are heavy, under-braked, and have valve guide problems, etc. And all these cars, to be useful on the track for anyone other than the most novice of novices, needs suspension, braking, and engine cooling mods. Not to mention, being very old cars, a lot of maintenance to keep healthy. You want an out-of-the-box, low-priced, super-fun street/track car? Boxster S.
Every model has its flaws -- 2.7's have awful engines, 3.0's need the head studs replaced, 3.2's are heavy, under-braked, and have valve guide problems, etc. And all these cars, to be useful on the track for anyone other than the most novice of novices, needs suspension, braking, and engine cooling mods. Not to mention, being very old cars, a lot of maintenance to keep healthy. You want an out-of-the-box, low-priced, super-fun street/track car? Boxster S.
05-12-2008, 01:53 PM
#4
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944S2. Great handling and if set up right, bulletproof. Quick, and if cost is a factor it quickly makes you forget the extra two cylinders.
05-12-2008, 03:51 PM
#5
Drifting
Those last 2 aren't air-cooled
but I do agree with Noah in that the Boxsters have to be a great bang for the buck considering that their price, availability and modern suspension.
but I do agree with Noah in that the Boxsters have to be a great bang for the buck considering that their price, availability and modern suspension.
05-12-2008, 04:36 PM
#7
Drifting
My vote is for a 964. I think you can have the classic 911 lines but modern gear box and nice amenities in this model for a very reasonable price. And yes, I know they have some issues just like most Pcars. Just learn what they are and buy accordinly.
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05-12-2008, 05:05 PM
#8
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There is no air-cooled 911 that meets your requirements. The one that I can think of is a Boxster S.
Every model has its flaws -- 2.7's have awful engines, 3.0's need the head studs replaced, 3.2's are heavy, under-braked, and have valve guide problems, etc. And all these cars, to be useful on the track for anyone other than the most novice of novices, needs suspension, braking, and engine cooling mods. Not to mention, being very old cars, a lot of maintenance to keep healthy. You want an out-of-the-box, low-priced, super-fun street/track car? Boxster S.
Every model has its flaws -- 2.7's have awful engines, 3.0's need the head studs replaced, 3.2's are heavy, under-braked, and have valve guide problems, etc. And all these cars, to be useful on the track for anyone other than the most novice of novices, needs suspension, braking, and engine cooling mods. Not to mention, being very old cars, a lot of maintenance to keep healthy. You want an out-of-the-box, low-priced, super-fun street/track car? Boxster S.
This logic is very reasonable. I started with a 2001 Boxster S... great car, handled beautifully, well-balanced, reliable..... however, I sold it for my 1st (of two) 993s. Just not the same beast (but based on your objective criteria, it would be a wise choice)
05-12-2008, 05:44 PM
#9
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Well, if we're talking waterpumpers, I think a '99 996 for $28K might offer more bang for the buck than a $15K Boxster 2.5. But that's a different can of worms.
I'm talking about a retro-sleeper outlaw air-cooled 911. Sorta like the strange builds you see in Excellence, but not for $75K. More like a 912 in which someone else already put a 3.2 and added the cage, brakes and all the track bits. No ammenities needed. If it was titled as a '71, for example, you could remove much of the smog equipment, right?
I'm talking about a retro-sleeper outlaw air-cooled 911. Sorta like the strange builds you see in Excellence, but not for $75K. More like a 912 in which someone else already put a 3.2 and added the cage, brakes and all the track bits. No ammenities needed. If it was titled as a '71, for example, you could remove much of the smog equipment, right?
05-12-2008, 06:03 PM
#10
Well, if you're looking for a track car, then yes, there are plenty of good deals around. If you have $28K to spend, you can get a nice 911SC or 3.2 Carrera that has had a lot of track-prep money dumped into it. Start browsing the classifieds.
But since you're looking for a highly-modified car, I don't understand why you're looking for a category of 911 to buy. By definition, you're going to be shopping for one-off examples.
But since you're looking for a highly-modified car, I don't understand why you're looking for a category of 911 to buy. By definition, you're going to be shopping for one-off examples.
05-12-2008, 06:34 PM
#11
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Here's what I learned:
There's plenty of bastardized iron out there and buying a completed car is more economical than building one.
Check around the indy shops, DEs, PCA events, SCCA events, track days and club publications. Many have bulletin boards/classifieds where customers can post cars for sale and you can often find one of those "$45K invested but will sell for $20K" deals. Just keep in mind that the $45K invested part usually includes the owner's labor valued at $300/hour.
A good indy technician can advise you on a quality outlaw build versus a piece of crap and most of the PPI rules would apply to the mechanicals. Above all, make sure the safety items are up to par.
Expect to have problems...Intermingling components across model years is never as clean as it sounds and homemade design is rarely as durable/reliable as factory design, especially if high performance is involved.
Expect to lose money when you get ready to get rid of it.
Have fun...Don't make it such a task that it becomes work.
Good luck,
Terry
05-12-2008, 06:37 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Funny, you sound like me 3 months ago. I was in love with the early 70s hot rods, the 87-89 cars, and of course our 993s. In the end, I decided that (again) the 993 was the best combination of old-school feel, seat of pants feel, smells, price, etc. I came REALLY close to buying a couple well done early hot rods, but in the end worried about resale value. Those cars are fun, but not original...and the well done examples are $60k+ easy.
